Television is in the midst of a Golden Era. By most accounts, there are more challenging, intelligent and interesting roles for women than ever before. Which makes finding exactly the right actress to fill these roles more important than ever before. Producers would probably sleep a little easier if they could just print up a few dozen copies of Lisa Edelstein. During a career that stretches back more than two decades, she has distinguished herself as one of the most challenging, intelligent and interesting performers on American television. Lisa grew up in Wayne, the daughter of a pediatrician and a social worker. Her passion for performing took her to NYU and then MTV, and eventually to a series of recurring roles on series such as Seinfeld, Ally McBeal, Felicity, Leap of Faith and The West Wing. After 150-plus episodes as one of the stars of House, Lisa was picked to star in Girlfriends’ Guide to Divorce—a series developed by Marti Noxon (Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Grey’s Anatomy, Mad Men) and inspired by the best-selling line of Girlfriends’ Guide books by Vicki Iovine. The series is unique in many respects, most notably as the first scripted series developed by the Bravo network. As EDGE Editor-at-Large Tracey Smith discovered, this is hardly what makes Lisa unique…and far from her first pioneering role.

EDGE: When did you first feel comfortable stepping out on stage?

LE: When I was born. (laughs) I never wanted to do anything else.  I just loved performing. I did a lot of dance recitals and a lot of school plays. If you asked me to carry a sign across the stage, I’d be thrilled. I told my parents when I was four years old that this was what I was going to do for a living. As soon as I was old enough, I began investigating how to do it as a grown-up, so starting at a young age I would go into New York to see where the agencies were and to get pictures made, just trying to figure out how things worked.

EDGE: Where were you in the process by the time you had enrolled at NYU?

Photo by Nadine Raphael • Dress: ALLSAINTS, Bloomingdales, Short Hills

LE: I had learned enough on my own that I had actually become a bit cynical in class. I felt that they weren’t actually talking about how to be an actor, they were just doing an acting class. I wanted to know how to be an actor. I was still figuring it out, just stumbling my way through. I was really involved with the club scene in New York at the time and I got a lot of attention for that. I sort of used that attention to produce a musical that I wrote about the AIDS crisis. It enabled me to be seen as a professional, but also it was so horrendous what was happening, it was really important that we found a way to talk about it.

EDGE: You also had a stint on MTV.

LE: Yes, for about seven months. I called it “4 Hours a Day 5 days a Week of National Humiliation” (laughs), It was really awful, but I learned a lot.

EDGE: What were some of your other early experiences in television?

LE: One of my first jobs in Los Angeles was L.A. Law. That was very exciting. Then I did a series that no one ever saw because in the middle of the fourth episode, the Executive Producer insulted the head of the studio during a script review and the whole show was canceled on my way to work. (laughs) No more job! There are a lot of things that happen along the way, a lot of “almost-jobs” that might have changed my life, but didn’t. But also a lot of little jobs that did change my life. You just keep going forward.

EDGE: What separates those who make it from those who don’t?

LE: I think one of the first things that weeds people out of this business is a lack of fortitude, not a lack of talent. This is a very, very challenging business emotionally. You need persistence and stubbornness, you have to really love the job. Not everybody is so fortunate to love what they’re doing, so in a way you’re cursed by wanting to be an artist (laughs). What a difficult and challenging career path this is. Yet at the same time, you’re blessed with knowing that there’s something out there that you love you to do. It is a real gift if what you’re doing also feeds you. I’ve always been very grateful for that, even at the bleakest moments. You know, the funny thing about being an actor—unlike most jobs—is that when you say, “I’m an actor,” you have to prove it. People want to know where you’ve done it, and then they want to decide whether or not they’ve seen it, or if they liked it. (laughs) You’re sort of judged, sometimes positively, sometimes negatively. Sometimes they just feel sorry for you. I think that’s true for any career in the arts, but particularly acting.

EDGE: You are now the star of Bravo’s first scripted series. That’s a big culture change for a network. Were you involved in that transition?

LE: No, no. It was already happening when I got there. This was not the first pilot they made—I think it was the second. They’d been reading scripts and playing with this idea for years. I read that first script and I loved it, but Bravo didn’t feel it was the right brand for the network. However, I already could tell by reading it that they were on the right track. They were picking smart projects that were dark and funny and interesting. After us, they are doing another show called Odd Mom Out. It’s a half-hour comedy and it’s really funny and really dark and I really like it. Bravo’s a great network. They really have thrown everything at us in the most wonderful way. They have been incredible promoters and really behind the show creatively. They are genuinely excited about the decisions they made and going for it—there’s no wishy-washiness. They take a really long time to make a decision, so when they make a decision they are not kidding. It’s been a real pleasure.

EDGE: What type of feedback are you hearing about your character, Abby?

LE: It is so exciting. It’s really exciting. When I did House, people would come over and talk about the show and how much they loved it, or ask things about Hugh Laurie’s character like, “doesn’t it drive you crazy he’s so mean to you?” But on this show, when people recognize me, they want to talk about their lives, they want to tell me why they relate to the show, and who it reminds them of and when my character did such and such. It’s very personal. It’s a great feeling because I really love this project and I really want to do more of it. I love the writing, I love the people I’m working with. The experience has been extraordinary. I’ve been working for a long time, so having an experience like this that tops everything else—it’s been a dream come true.

EDGE: You’ve worked with some seriously funny co-stars, including Hugh on House and, now, Janeane Garofalo on Girlfriends’ Guide. Does she bring a lot of silly to the set?

LE: Janeane is hilarious, but she’s not a very silly person. She is very serious, with a very sharp wit, but she’s not a clown. It is very important to Janeane that she can inhabit what her character is doing and saying, so she works in a very specific way and it was really a lot of fun to volley with her in that way. She’s great, she’s smart, and she’s a very interesting woman.

EDGE: The two of you grew up less than an hour apart, in Wayne and Newton. Did you already know each other?

LE: We did. We actually met many years ago, in 1990. She worked at MTV around the same time I did, and we have a lot of mutual friends.

Photo by Nadine Raphael
Vest: NICK+ZOE, Lord and Taylor, Westfield; Shoes: POUR LA VICTOIRE, Sole Shoes, Westfield

EDGE: Do you and Janeane bring some Jersey Girl toughness to your characters?

LE: Janeane’s character is tough, but I don’t know if Abby is tough. She certainly bounces back, but I don’t know if tough is a word I would use with Abby.

EDGE: Each of your episodes is themed around a “Rule”…do you have your own set of “Lisa Rules” that have allowed you to be successful?

LE: Yeah, I guess I do. I do have some rules. Never say yes to a job you don’t want. Never go out with a man who can’t ask you out on a specific date. He’s too wishy-washy. No one can eat meat in my house. Those are my rules, for me. I wouldn’t say they apply to everybody.

EDGE: You once said in an interview that you don’t care if you’re the star, that you really like to be part of an ensemble…and that you want to “use my brain as much as I possibly can.”

LE: Is that an old quote? That’s amazing in a huge way because now I get to sort of experience all of that. What’s so exciting about the Bravo series is how deeply involved and relied upon I am. All parts of me are used, and I love that. I am working 16 hours a day when we’re shooting almost every day. My attitude and dedication to the project has a big effect on the set. It’s important to me that the place I work is the place I’ve always wanted to work and having the opportunity to create that type of environment is a real blessing. I hope I’m doing a good job. Marti Noxon really trusts me. When a scene is being constructed, she often listens to my ideas and I feel like a real participant in the creative process. My opinion matters to Robert Duncan McNeill, our Producing Director, who has a lot of input in how we’re telling the overall arching story, and that feels good. I feel like I’m in a leadership position. After working for 25 years or so that feels great, it’s exciting. I take it seriously and I’m doing my absolute best.

EDGE: Since EDGE is supported by a medical center, of course we have to ask a couple of House questions. How did you land the role of Lisa Cuddy, the hospital administrator?

LE: I just auditioned for it. Brian Singer, who was directing the pilot had been a huge fan of The West Wing and, I didn’t know this at the time, he loved my character Brittany on the show. So when I came in to read, he was already on the Lisa Edelstein team. Cuddy started off sort of slowly, the character didn’t have a lot to do in the first season because there so was much to be done in developing the structure of the show itself. But little by little, they started to infuse Cuddy with more character, the relationship got more complicated, things were revealed and it got more fun.

EDGE: How does one prepare for the role of a hospital administrator?

LE: I think you just go in knowing she is a medical professional, she’s a professional woman, she’s really well-educated, she’s got a lot on her plate. I certainly didn’t study endocrinology or anything, which was her specialty. I think it’s more about understanding what it means to be highly successful in your field. She would have been one of very few women who were running hospitals at the time if she existed in the real world. And she would have been very, very, young.

EDGE: Having worked in a fictional hospital, are you more confident or less confident when you have to go to a real hospital?

LE: Oh, I grew up around hospitals because my dad is a doctor. I’ve always felt confident in hospitals and I really love medicine, so I know how to hear it, how to listen and what questions to ask.  I’m an advocate for a friend of mine who is going through some terrible stuff, so I’m good at that. EDGE

Editor’s Note: From the small world department…it turns out that Lisa’s father, Dr. Alvin Edelstein, was known to the EDGE staff long before Lisa became the family’s star. Back in the 1980s and 1990s, Dr. Edelstein treated the children of one of the magazine’s editors!

A good actress knows how to make a part her own. A great one makes you wonder how anyone else could have possibly played it better. Laura Prepon has a knack for creating indelible characters and a talent for commanding the screen. In her third season as Alex Vause on the hit Netflix series Orange Is the New Black, she brings new depth to a character that already ranked among the most complex and conniving on television. Born and bred in Watchung, Laura had what many might consider an unconventional upbringing. As Gerry Strauss discovered, that upbringing not only seemed perfectly natural…it gave her the confidence and freedom to become a star.

EDGE: You had a successful career as a model when you decided to throw yourself into acting. Why make what was really a risky switch?

LP: It’s funny, because I was always really great at science and I was going to be a surgeon like my father. That was my plan, to become a doctor. But as a kid, there was something missing from my life. I always knew there was something I was searching for, but I didn’t really know what it was. None of my friends were actors, or remotely involved in the drama department in my school, which was non-existent. Anyway, I started modeling when I was 15 and had a chance to move to Europe. My mother said, “Go.”

EDGE: At 15?

LP: I had a very unorthodox upbringing, but in an amazing way. My mother trusted all of us implicitly and treated us more like her friends than her children. We were all very independent and took care of ourselves at a young age. She totally instilled confidence in us, as well as the sense of being an individual. So I moved to Milan at 15 and lived there for about a year and a half. I loved living abroad and I loved living on my own at such a young age. It really makes you grow up quickly. The first acting I did was an Italian Uncle Ben’s Rice commercial. I did that job and I was just like, “This is awesome.” It was more along the lines of what I was searching for. So I quit modeling and I moved home. I said to my mom, “I want to try this acting thing.” She’s like, “Okay.” She was totally supportive, as she always is. I never in my life even mentioned getting into acting and now I’m saying I want to be an actress. She’s like, “Great, yeah.” I started acting, got the part on That 70s Show that year and moved to Los Angeles in 1998. I’ve been living here since. It really was just one of those things that was meant to be, even though it wasn’t the path I was on.

EDGE: So that was it for modeling.

LP: I never wanted to model. I’m the youngest of five kids and my eldest sister was working at Glamour magazine. I was always tall and skinny as a kid and she suggested I try it. I’m like, “No. What? Why would I ever want to model?” She said, “Go to this agency.” I literally took these 4 x 6 photos of us from a Mediterranean cruise and they signed me. That was it. And a month later, I was in Milan.

EDGE: What do you think made you so immediately appealing as a model and an actress?

LP: I’m trying to figure out how to answer your question without being like, “Yeah, I have that It Factor.” What I will say is that I know that I’m not like other people. Even growing up, I always looked different. I have red hair. I have a deep voice. I’m tall. I always was outside of the norm. I was not a cookie-cutter blonde cheerleader. It’s funny, while I was on That 70s Show, obviously, I’m being sent for movies, but I wouldn’t get them. I’m like, “What’s going on?” I would get weird and introverted about it. I would talk to my team about it and they’re like, “Laura, this is a great thing. You’re not cookie-cutter. You are you. You’re an individual, and when people get you, they get you—and nobody else can play the roles that you play.” Now, as I’m evolving into myself and becoming a woman in this industry, I am so happy that I’m different. I am so happy that I’m not a cookie-cutter actress, because those are the roles that stand out, the roles not everybody can play—roles that are unique and make an impact. I love that part of me, so it’s great.

EDGE: That 70’s Show has had great success in syndication. Is it weird to still see yourself during those younger days, when you were still growing up and developing your identity?

LP: You know, that’s interesting because a lot of the jobs that I’ve done are so tied to that point in my life, and that’s awesome. Honestly, I love it. When I see That 70’s Show now I literally get such a nostalgic feeling out of it. When people look back at their school yearbook from high school or college and have all these memories—that was That 70s Show for me. I think about growing up with my co-stars. I saw Topher Grace yesterday. We had lunch together, and we were just talking about the show and how it had such an amazing impact on our lives.

EDGE: What happened after the series wrapped?

LP: Two weeks later, I jumped onto a show called October Road and played a woman named Hannah Daniels. It’s funny because at that point, it was as if I’d “graduated” from That 70s Show. Hannah was a young mother. It felt like leaving high school or college and getting that first job in the real world. Psychologically, moving from a character like Donna into a character like Hannah was like transitioning in my life.

EDGE: What does it feel like to play Alex Vause in Orange Is the New Black?

LP: Getting into a show like Orange Is the New Black has been really interesting. Playing this amazing, incredibly powerful woman who’s also delicate and vulnerable. I was literally going on a hike with Jenji Kohan, the creator of our show, the other day. We were talking about the third season. My character, Alex, is going through a lot of things with her relationship with Piper Chapman. That vulnerability, and her being in love with this woman and their relationship, is so tumultuous. I’m like, “Jenji, it’s so funny because when we were filming Season Three, I feel like there were a bunch of things in my own life that were making me vulnerable. It shows how much art imitates life and life imitates art.”

EDGE: Is Alex the perfect part for you?

LP: Playing Alex Vause right now is so perfect for me, at this point in my life, because of all the amazing things I’m dealing with. There are scenes where I can be strong, and others where I could massively break down. So, yes, it’s perfect for me right now. It’s really interesting how things line up with the periods of your life.

EDGE: In what ways have you changed since migrating to the West Coast?

LP: I’ve changed in many ways, in the sense that I’ve developed and grown so much as a person, as a friend and as a sister. The Jersey in me will always be there and I love it so much. I miss it when I’m not there.

EDGE: In what ways are you still a Jersey girl?

LP: I feel like, on the East Coast in general, people are much more forthright with their conversation and I’m very much like them. If there’s something that bothers me, if there’s something wrong, I talk to the person. I’m just very open and honest. I feel like that’s more of an East Coast thing in general, and I love that attribute.

EDGE: At what point did you start to focus on maintaining a healthy and natural diet?

LP: Growing up, my mother was a gourmet chef and an advocate of organic food, so we always had amazing organic food. And it’s always been a hobby of mine to read health and fitness and diet books. The more research I did over the last 15 years or so, the more I learned about the adverse effects of pesticides and what GMO’s—genetically modified organisms—actually do to your body. It’s pretty scary. When you ingest GMOs, your body and your liver don’t know what to do with them. So they get stored in your body fat as a toxin, because it’s like a foreign substance.

EDGE: And now you are writing a book on the subject. That’s a huge undertaking. Why is this project so important to you?

LP: Essentially, I have been struggling with a bunch of different ailments in secret for a long time. I was doing all of this research and reading all these books, seeing all these doctors and spending all this crazy money and taking all these pills. None of that was working, and then all of a sudden, I started to heal myself by working with an integrated health coach, Elizabeth Troy. She really started to heal me for the first time. So we decided to write a book together. Soon we’ll be able to help a lot of people.

New Jersey entertainers are known for their talent and for their toughness. That being said, Katrina Law takes tough and talented to a whole new level. She excels in action roles and heats up the screen with her sultry looks, but can also pull off the girl-next-door role. A standout student-athlete in her hometown of Deptford—and a graduate of Stockton University—she is a member of the National Honors Society and also a former Miss New Jersey Teen USA. If you want to meet Katrina at Comic-Con, plan to stand on line a while. She currently plays Nyssa al Ghul on the CW series Arrow (based on DC Comics’ Green Arrow) and portrayed the rebel leader Mira on the Starz series Spartacus. Both roles involved expertise in archery—a skill Katrina picked up with her usual aplomb. As Robert Piper discovered, it’s yet another case of Katrina hitting the bullseye.    

EDGE: You have had recurring television roles as a terrorist [Resistance] a counterterrorist [The Rookie], a conspiratorial slave girl [Spartacus], and an anti-hero assassin [Arrow]. Your auditions must be fascinating.  

KL: A lot of those roles really require a physicality, like the fight choreography, being able to handle yourself with weapons. I’m naturally aggressive in real life, which gives me advantages in this category of acting. 

DeKnight Prod./Starz Originals

EDGE: What is it that draws you to these roles? Do they reflect some aspect of your personality?

KL: [Laughs] When I get really aggravated with somebody, I feel like some of my fantasy characters do. But other than that, I’m pretty easygoing and happy most of the time!

EDGE: What sports did you play in high school?

KL: I ran track and played soccer. I also was a cheerleader, a dancer and I weight-lifted.

EDGE: Was there one activity that stands out as having prepared you particularly well for your career?

KL: Yes, dancing, because it’s about learning choreography and maintaining it. I did everything—ballet, tap, jazz, modern, mirror ball, flamenco, ballroom dancing. So when it comes to fight choreography, for me it’s a more aggressive form of dancing. Knowing that my body can pick up the movements and retain them is the biggest aspect.

Bonanza Prod./Berlanti Prod./DC Entertainment

EDGE: You had a part in the 2000 film Lucky Numbers as a teenager. How did that happen?

KL: Lucky Numbers…I can’t even remember what year that was. They needed extras in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, and I remember just being so excited. It was November and they wanted one of the extras to jump in the river, pretending it was summer. And I was like, Oh, I’ll totally do it. I was completely frozen afterwards, but then I realized that I really did enjoy doing it. I was thinking about making a career in acting anyway, so I asked the production assistant, like, how do I get a job on this? Or how do I volunteer to be a PA on this film? Thankfully, Nora Ephron was very kind to me. She allowed me to be on-set the entire month they were in Harrisburg. Then, eventually, there was a part where she needed four teenagers screaming out of a car at John Travolta. And she asked if I wanted to be a screaming teenager? I said, Yes. And that’s how I got my S.A.G. card.

EDGE: Who made the greatest impression on you during Lucky Numbers?

KL: Oh, well, John Travolta was so charming and so lovely and beautiful. He smiled at everyone. He was so kind when he entered the room—with his fellow actors and to me. He’s just very charming and lovely. I think I was a little star-struck by him.

Bonanza Prod./Berlanti Prod./DC Entertainment

EDGE: You could have gone to any college you wanted, including Rowan, in your hometown. What appealed to you about Stockton University? 

KL: I was undecided about a career. I originally thought I was going to school as a dancer, but my high-school guidance counselor convinced me to go for physical therapy. However, in the back of my head, I knew I wasn’t going to be a physical therapist. Meanwhile, I’d always had my fingers dabble a little bit in Marine Biology. So in Stockton I essentially picked the school that offered all three.  

EDGE: At what point did acting become a focus in your life? 

KL: It was after I had gotten into Stockton. I decided to try doing summer stock and I ended up booking the role of Cassie in A Chorus Line. It was the first time that I sang, acted, and danced on stage. It was so fulfilling and one of the most enjoyable things I’ve ever done in my entire life. I went back to school and immediately changed my major from marine biology to theater. That’s kind of when it just took off. 

EDGE: The Starz series Spartacus was one of your first major roles. How excited were you to get that part?

KL: I cried when I booked it. I just broke down and started sobbing hysterically in terrible joy tears, if that makes sense. I was so excited. I’d auditioned for it on a Monday, booked it on a Wednesday, and that same Wednesday they basically told me I needed to leave for New Zealand for the next three months that Friday. So I get on the plane and it was my first time ever flying in first class—I was so excited about the service and the amenities, and I watched four movies on the way over there. As soon as I got to the set, they threw me into hair and makeup and then into cast. By the end of the night I was delirious. It was a lesson learned to always sleep on the plane. 

EDGE: How did you get on with your co-star Lucy Lawless?  

KL: She was very kind. She introduced me to everybody—by the end of the day I think I had learned over 200 names. Just watching her act is a lesson in and of itself. Every now and then you think about somebody and why they have “star power,” or what it is about them that makes them succeed beyond others. Well, when you look into Lucy’s eyes for the first time they are so pure and focused that it just makes you understand why she got to where she is.

EDGE: How did the role in Arrow come about?   

KL: I originally auditioned for a role on The Tomorrow People. It’s cast by David Rapaport, who also casts Arrow. I was completely wrong for the part—it was a British girl—but he said, “I want you to come back for this other role on Arrow tomorrow—and bring the accent.” I was like. Alright. So I auditioned and I ended up getting a call-back for it. This time they wanted me to do a chemistry read. My sides were originally with Stephen Amell, but they had me do them with Caity Lotz. I said, “These sides are very flirty and very much about our relationship. Is she my sister? Is she my friend? Am I a lesbian?” They said, “We can’t tell you.” So I basically walk into the audition for the chemistry read and there’s Caity Lotz. Apparently, we had chemistry, and that’s how I got my part. 

EDGE: Were you into comics as a kid? 

KL: I wasn’t into comics per se, but I was a fan of DC and Marvel as much as anyone else. 

EDGE: What do you think of the whole Comic-Con culture now that you’re a part of it?

KL: I love it! I absolutely adore that being a nerd is now cool! They can finally come out in the open and be proud, and they have a place to celebrate what they love and the characters they develop. It’s just a beautiful place.

EDGE: What’s on the horizon for you project-wise? 

KL: When I started off, I never thought that I’d land roles like I have on Spartacus and Arrow. I couldn’t have asked for better roles—it was so much fun, and both shows were international hits. So I hope that I continue to be surprised by really great projects. Upcoming I have Darkness Rising coming out and I have an episode of Uncle Buck, which is a sitcom for ABC, coming out. 

EDGE: It seems like the theme of your life is “Set a goal, make it happen.” Do you ever think about getting involved behind the cameras? 

KL: Yes and no. I feel like I’m a little disorganized. I have a very artistic mind and it’s very scattered. I don’t think I can focus enough to be able to direct. But who knows? Maybe. We shall see. 

EDGE: Okay, a couple of final Jersey questions. You’ve been to a lot of beaches since you left New Jersey. Where do Ocean City and the other Jersey Shore beaches you know rank in the world of beaches?

KL: You know what? The Jersey Shore beaches are always going to be my number-one. This is where I grew up, it’s my heart. I know what the air smells like. I know what the ocean sounds like. I know what the water feels like. It’s home. 

EDGE: Finally, if I ask someone from your hometown what’s the difference between a South Jersey Girl and a North Jersey Girl, what answer will I get?

KL: South Jersey girls are cooler! [Laughs] Oh, my god…I’m gonna get in so much trouble for that one. 

Editor’s Note: Robert Piper is a freelance writer who lives in Chicago. He covers entertainment, pop culture, and health & wellness. Robert’s writing has appeared in The Huffington Post, Live Happy, and Origin Magazine. 

When it comes to sideswiping mob bosses, most people would agree that one degree of separation is a little too close for comfort. For Kathrine Narducci, it’s kind of a sweet spot. She played the torn parent of a young boy being courted by the local crime kingpin in A Bronx Tale (opposite Robert DeNiro), and Charmaine Bucco, the saucy restaurateur in The Sopranos. Narducci sparkled in both devilishly difficult roles. In 2017, she reunited with DeNiro in the HBO film The Wizard of Lies, this time portraying Bernie Madoff’s longtime secretary. Once again, Narducci took a complex character and knocked it out of the park. Editor at Large Tracey Smith caught up with “Nardooch” after shooting wrapped to talk about how she found these characters. And how they found her. 

EDGE: What do you consider your defining role?  

KN: I would say A Bronx Tale because that was the first thing I ever did. I have Robert DeNiro to thank for that. He doesn’t even know…well, yes, he does know because every time I see him I tell him! He and his partner, Jane Rosenthal—who have been together since ’93—they’re the reason I am even able to have a career, so I don’t forget that. Your first role opposite Robert DeNiro? You couldn’t ask for a better person on this planet. He’s such a kind, understanding, giving human being first, and then an actor, and that helps. 

Savoy Pictures 

EDGE: How did you land the role of Rosina opposite him?

KN: I took my son, who was seven years old at the time, for the role of the boy, Calogero. When I was there, I realized they had auditions for the mother. I didn’t realize that the mother was actually DeNiro’s wife because they didn’t give me a script. They just gave me sides. The kid’s open call was like a cattle call and my son was the last little boy to go in. When he was done, I was waiting outside in the waiting room. I was a “closet case” actress [laughs]. I didn’t tell anybody I was trying to do things like go on auditions, and my family didn’t know. When I took my son there I thought, Wow, I could meet Robert DeNiro at this audition if I get my son here on this open call. Well, while I was sitting there, women started coming in like around my age, that looked like me, that walked like me, that talked like me, and I asked the casting director when my son came out, “Why are they still here?” She said, “Oh, they’re here for the wife but that’s not an open call—you need to be a SAG actress, are you SAG?”  I said, “No.” Then she said, “Well…if we don’t find who we’re looking for today, Bob wants to make the wife an open call tomorrow.” She told me to then give her a call in the morning and she would let me know.   

EDGE: Did you know who “Bob” was?

KN: No, I didn’t know Bob was Robert DeNiro [laughs]. So I started getting ready for work for the next morning, and then decided to not go to work, and to call that woman to see if I could go in for the movie.  I called her and she said, “Yeah we’re here. C’mon over!” They put me on tape, sent it to Robert DeNiro, and the next morning I got up to go to work again when I got a call and they said, “Bob saw your tape and he’d like to meet you down in Tribeca and wants you to do a call back.” I went down to Tribeca where I met Bob and Chazz Palminteri, and Bob said, “There’s a slight chance we’ll call you back.”  When I got home, on my answering machine that night, I was invited back! I went back a thousand times and then finally screen tested, which led to me getting the role. It really was an incredibly long, hard process because he kept making me come back and come back. 

EDGE: That must have been nerve-wracking.

KN: When I finally got the role and I showed up at work the first day on set, he goes, “You know, you need to know you beat twenty-five hundred girls.” I wasn’t nervous until that point! 

EDGE: DeNiro has said he believes that, when it’s your time and your role, there’s nothing to keep you from getting it.

KN: I believe that is very true. When it is your time, nothing can keep you from getting the roles you want. Bob was fantastic! It was a great learning experience for me, unbelievable. Everything else pales in comparison to that experience. So then I started getting really good stuff. It’s funny, right after that I got my second role. It was a small one, a cameo role in the remake of Miracle on 34th Street opposite Sir Richard Attenborough, a wonderful British actor and also an amazing director. I couldn’t even believe it, oh my God!  Then from there it was getting an agent, getting in a class and learning my craft.

FASHION TAILS Photographer: Devin Dygert, MUA: Jacqueline Holden, Hair: Carolina Yasukawa, Stylist: Eva Danielle, Rescue: LA Animal Rescue, Retoucher: Nadia Selander

EDGE: When you played Rosina in A Bronx Tale, how much did Chazz want you to be like his mother and how much did he trust you to develop the character? 

KN: Chazz and Bob said whatever you brought into the room is exactly who she is, so just do whatever comes organically—you were right in the room. Just do what you were doing and do what your instincts tell you because it’s on the money.  They didn’t want me to change anything. Chazz said to me, “Don’t worry. You have the essence of that, and don’t get in your head about it.” So that’s what I did and I went with my instincts.

EDGE: Were they a good team? 

KN: Chazz trusted DeNiro fully because he directed it and he was in it. That was his directing debut, you know.

EDGE: Your iconic role of Charmaine Bucco in The Sopranos came a few years later.

KN: In 1999, I got a call from Cathy Moriarty, who had also played DeNiro’s wife, in Raging Bull. She gave me the nickname

Upper Case Editorial

“Nardooch,” which everybody calls me.Cathy said, “Nardooch! You gotta go in for this role. This show is called The Sopranos.” And I was like, “I don’t sing!” [laughs] I called up my agent and he got me the audition. I auditioned for David Chase and then I got the role of Charmaine, which I played from the ’99 pilot until 2007, which was beautiful. It was an actor’s dream to just have a continuous paycheck and to be able to make it as an actor. 

EDGE: Why did Charmaine dislike Tony and Carmela so much? They had “invested” in Artie’s restaurant?

KN: She was definitely the strong voice of reason on that show. She’s the only one that never really flipped and could never be allured by that life. I had a scene with Edie Falco when I tell her I slept with Tony the summer she went away. I tell her in that scene, “I slept with Tony, Carmella, and to be honest with you, it wasn’t for me.”  I leave her standing there shocked! I wondered as an actor why Charmaine had this vendetta against Tony. In my mind, I felt that summer that I slept with him that he actually didn’t call me back, and that’s why I say to Carmela, “I coulda had him but I didn’t want him.” That would actually be a lie. I couldn’t have had him because he never called me back. It was a summer fling to him, and I think Charmaine held onto that—which was my ammunition. I had no backstory of why I would be against this man and I just felt it had to go this deep. It had to do with sex and love, because those are the things that women hold onto.

EDGE: You played another Italian character in The Wizard of Lies, which aired on HBO in May.

KN: I play an Italian but she’s not a “Mom Italian.” I’m opposite DeNiro again in the role of Eleanor Squillari, who was Bernie Madoff’s secretary for twenty-five years.  She was not just his gatekeeper, she was a very dedicated, hard worker. The devotion Eleanor had for Bernie was unbelievable. Her office was right out in front of Bernie’s and you had to get past her to get to Bernie. After Bernie was arrested, people started calling the office, cursing Eleanor out and asking where their money was. She realized that she handled all his business and that she’s in deep you-know-what. Everyone thinks I’m part of it. How could I not know he stole 365 billion dollars?

EDGE: How was it working with the director, Barry Levinson?

KN: Oh, my God, what an amazing director. The only note he gave me at the beginning of the table read, he told us all to not impersonate.   

EDGE: Was that character fun to play?

KN: Yes, because she was real. She was Bernie Madoff’s right-hand man. She was solid. And that is a big part of who I am. I’m very loyal to my real friends. I’m very devoted to my job. 

EDGE: Of the other characters you’ve played, who else reflected aspects of who you are? 

KN: As far as A Bronx Tale, I had a son that age and I was a mom who is nurturing a kid, which was a part of me. And like Charmaine Bucco, as I said, I’m a very loyal person. I am also a very good cook. And she ran that restaurant with an iron fist. I’m good at what I do and I live and breathe my career and I love it so much. And so did Charmaine. She didn’t take any crap. Nor do I! 

Editor’s Note: Kathrine Narducci is an ardent supporter of Fashion Tails. Fashion Tails is an initiative started to educate the public about the plight of homeless animals through the use of high fashion photography with celebrities.

Leading men come and go in Hollywood. Only a handful, though, have the ability to disappear into a supporting character. John Heard, who passed away shortly after this interview, was at home at either end of the spectrum, which accounts for his long, interesting career. Heard first wowed critics in his early 20s as an Obie-winning stage actor in New York, and quickly moved into film and television roles. He reeled off a string of memorable performances in the 1980s, including Cutter’s Way, Cat People, The Trip to Bountiful, Heaven Help Us, The Milagro Beanfield War, Big, Beaches, Mindwalk, Awakenings and The Pelican Brief. In 1990, he played Peter McCallister, the dad in Home Alone. Jenny Stewart knew John Heard for more than two decades. She reached out to John to get the story behind his role in Home Alone…and the unusual challenges he faced as one of the most recognized actors of his time

EDGE: When you got the script for Home Alone, did you have any idea that this was going to become such an iconic movie

JH: No. No idea

EDGE: Many people have pointed out that the premise is hard to swallow. Could a family board a plane for Europe and leave a child behind?

JH: That’s a good question. And that’s what Katherine O’Hara (above) and I had to ask ourselves. The two of us didn’t know. Between the two of us, she had the more difficult part. I could just be sort of a dummy, a goofy guy—I made him a gynecologist—I didn’t care, as long as she was as focused as she was in terms of losing our son. Then we learned that it was a comedy. Why is this funny?  How do we play this? We didn’t really know how comedic all that slapstick stuff was going to be until we saw it. It wasn’t until the second Home Alone that we knew that we could be funny.

EDGE: So you both were playing it straight?

JH: We were playing it straight. Or, we were given an opportunity by the director to be comedic—but not necessarily personally comedic or funny, not somebody making jokes

EDGE: Have you ever misplaced a child and felt that kind of panic and terror

JH: Sure. From the moment you have children you’re experiencing that. I can remember a time when I was in a little video store, a perfectly safe place, in Rhinebeck, New York. My son, Jack, was four or five. I was talking to the girl who ran the store with her mother, and I turned around and he wasn’t there. We were towards the back of the store, so there wasn’t any place for him to go. It was literally like he had disappeared. I flipped out. I’d taught him not to run around to try to find a parent if he became separated, to stand in the same place where he lost his parent—teaching him his phone numbers, stuff like that. I started racing around in a circle. “Jack! Jack!!” Somehow he had managed to blend in with the videotapes in the corner of the store; I didn’t see him. I hugged him. “Oh, my God, there you are!”  God, it was so horrible. I know the feeling, and it’s a really horrible feeling

EDGE: What do you remember from the set of Home Alone?

JH: Michael Jackson came to the set to see Macaulay Culkin. They were buddies. We were all getting into a van while we were shooting the ride to the airport, and I hit my head getting into the van. Someone took a picture of them standing in front of the van with me wearing the camel hair coat from the movie holding a hot water bottle on my head. I don’t know what happened to it

EDGE: You grew up in the Washington D.C. area. Do you consider that home

JH: That and New York City, I guess. I’ve spent an equal amount of time in each.

EDGE: What did your parents do?

JH: My father worked in the Pentagon. He was under assistant to the assistant to the under assistant to the Secretary of Defense. He was in charge of contracting and military appropriations. He was an engineer. On weekends, my father would go play his saxophone, which he loved dearly, and my mother would go and perform in a community theater play.

EDGE: Who got you into the theater as a young man?

JH: My mother, probably, and my sister, Cordis, who wanted to build a theater in our garage. My mother said to me, ”Why don’t you get out of the house and do something?” It was more of a threat that, if I didn’t, she would make life more difficult. The first show that I ever was in at the Chevy Chase Community Center was a show called The Happy Wanderer. The kid that was going to sing in the show got sick. He had one of those operatic voices at age 12. The lady that ran the group of us—she was very sweet, I had a crush on her—said to me, “All you have to do is walk around, John, and pretend like you’re singing…and we’ll play something.”

EDGE: Poor singing voice?

JH: Terrible. When I was in college, I did an operetta, and I only had one line to sing. I had a director who literally pulled his hair out every time I sang. And, he didn’t have much to pull out!  He was like, “Don’t you hear yourself?”

EDGE: How many roles have you had where you had to sing?

JH: None. Well, actually, I did a repeat role in The Sopranos and they called me up and said, “Tony’s going to have a dream return thing, like years later, and you have to sing around the table. It’s part of the dream that he’s having, and you‘re singing [sings] You’re once…twice…three times a lady. That’s one of the hardest songs in the world for anybody to sing!  So I called up David Chase, and said, “I’m not singing this. I can’t sing that song.” He said, “I never thought of that. It never occurred to me that you couldn’t sing.” Like it was all my fault. He didn’t change it, so I had to sing it. I had to take singing lessons for a week to sing even a note of it. And I had to sing it in front of Annette Bening and Jimmy Gandolfini, they were two people at the table. Annette was really nice. Gandolfini was always really funny. He said, “Wow, you sound a lot better off camera.” Annette Bening said, “Jimmy! Don’t be mean!” She was, like, give him a break. I never forgot how she stood up for me.

EDGE: One of your first movie roles was playing Jack Kerouac in the 1980 film Heart Beat along with Nick Nolte and Sissy Spacek. What was it like stepping into such an iconic character

JH: It was scary because I’m not anything like him. I picked a certain time when Jack Kerouac had written Maggie Cassidy about his hometown in Lowell, Mass. I identified with that. I went to school at Clark University, which was in Worcester, and I knew from counties and dark New England nights and so on and so forth. Also, he was a member of a boy’s gang, he was Catholic, he was Canadian—French Quebecois. He had a rugged side.  He was poor, his mother looked out for him, I don’t remember if his father was around. But, he was a lot tougher than me. I was a little bit more effete, so I was worried that I was going to come off too bookish. Jack Kerouac seemed pretty downtrodden to me and he was such a heavy drinker. So I’d get into fights with the director, John Byrum, all the time. He’d say, “I don’t give a crap if it’s the real thing, just play the scene, stop being so glum.” 

EDGE: He was looking for a different Kerouac.

JH: This was a time in Kerouac’s life when Carolyn Cassidy and Neal Cassidy and he, I think, were having the most fun—riding around, both of them being in love with her, and her with them. They were being cutting edge, so that was what the movie was trying to show.  He didn’t want me to be Jack Kerouac in The Dark of Night. He used to take my girlfriend at the time, and put her on a ladder behind the camera, and surprise me so that she would make faces or something, shake her booty, so that I would perk up.

EDGE: What was it like off-set with Nick and Sissy?

JH: Sissy we didn’t see that much of; we scared her off very early on. She was like, “They’re going to throw me in the pool.”  Nick and I—and his friend Billy Cross—hung out every night and just drove L.A. We were up all night every night, and went from one end of L.A. to the other. Billy drove.  We’d pull into one house after another, 20 minutes apart, to see girls with their hair up in rollers, with their pajamas on, going [falsetto] ‘Hi, Nick!” with their face in their hands. Everybody loved Nick. I mean everybody loved Nick. Everywhere you went everyone loved Nick Nolte. He was great! He’s a great guy!

EDGE: He’s a man’s man.

JH: Yes.  He’s very much a man’s man.  All the stunt guys used to love him. We used to drink over at The River Bottom, and they would actually come in the back room and sit down in our booth to meet Nick and say hi to Nick. That’s a very rare thing for an actor; that was quite a tribute. With me, it was like “Who’s he?”   

EDGE: How did coming of age in the late 1960’s influence who you are?

JH: After college, I went to [grad school at] Catholic University to stay out of Vietnam.  It was a stupid decision, since they weren’t giving anybody deferments for going to grad school anymore. But, I tried anyway!  I thought that I’d get a master’s degree in theater drama. I’ll teach…that will be fun…I’ll be connected to the theater, get hooked up in some theater department somewhere in the United States and stay in that privileged world of academics. It was 1968, and I was graduated from college and I didn’t know what to do.  It was a time when everything was interconnected with an alternate lifestyle. 

EDGE: And?

JH: I realized that I had no ability whatsoever to write a masters thesis! But, Catholic U. had a touring theater company that traveled around the country performing plays for $80 a week.  My acting teacher said I could go. His actual words were, “Everyone else is in Vietnam, John, so yeah, you can go.” I guess you can say that’s when the “acting bug” hit. We drove everywhere—Iowa, Michigan, Georgia. Setting up the show, performing, breaking it down.  And, in between, we were getting into all sorts of trouble. It was a political time. It was a lifestyle. It was anti-government, anti-corporations. It was a great way of being in touch with everything that was going on in your lifetime at that age.

EDGE: Did you consider yourself a hippie?

JH: I didn’t have the guts to go the whole distance as a hippie. Friends of mine did. You have to remember that we were all supposed to go to Vietnam because of the draft.  Extreme things had to be done to stay out of going. Some guys tried to flunk the physical, or said they were crazy. I didn’t have to do any of that because of theater, I was lucky enough to work. 

EDGE: What should I add to my Netflix queue to see John Heard at his best?

JH: Everybody points to Cutter’s Way (above). I don’t know. That was another instance of me being not quite gritty enough. That’s what Billy, Nick’s friend, said. Maybe Big. Although Big is a little one-note. I wish I had done more in Big. I was just trying to get through the words and make them believable. Sometimes, you have to show up and remember to be creative, to come with something that’s not straightforward.  

EDGE: You were a bad guy in Big. Do you prefer playing the bad guy or do you like the funny, good guy roles?

JH: I would prefer to play the “theater of the absurd” guy—an Ionesco kind of a transition from World War II into the ’60’s kind of thing. Not-stand up humor. A humorous character with a point of view, but not trying to be funny. Playing a bad guy for me, that’s hard.

EDGE: How so?

JH: Because there is a tendency for me to become over-emotional, and most bad guys are great when they are emotionless. They’re straightforward, prepossessed and physically formidable. Look at Joe Pesci. He’s only—what?—five feet tall.  But every time Joe gets pissed he’s so wonderfully bad ass. And yet, at the same time, he’s the funniest guy in the world! You know when he did that thing about “What’s so funny about me?” in Goodfellas, well he did that to me one night in a hotel. He came in and I was standing at the front desk. He told me a story about some guy that kept bugging him. He kept saying [spot-on Joe Pesci imitation] “Don’t make me come ova dere, don’t make me come ova dere.” I think he was trying it out on me, because he ended up putting that in Home Alone, and it was hilarious. He has some kind of unique combination of talent, a voice and a physicality that he blends into one person. He’s engaging as a bad guy and that’s where I’d like to be. 

EDGE: Are you still having fun acting?

JH: Yes. I have a lot of fun. I like to have fun. I like to screw around and I like to be sort of a jerk, and give people a hard time, get people to leave me alone. They think that I’m some big grouch. But people forget that you’re standing there between takes and you’re thinking about what you’re going to do or what you’re going to say.  

EDGE: Are you interested in doing stage again?

JH: Yes, I love the stage. I love theater, its’ my first choice. I always think that I could be great on stage. I don’t know why. I think that’s the tradition of being on stage, you think you can be great. I don’t think you think that as much in movies. But, I think that about theater.

EDGE: Is that because of the energy you get from the audience?  

JH: Maybe. I just think traditionally every young actor thinks my Hamlet is going to be the greatest Hamlet!

Editor’s Note: John Heard passed away following back surgery on July 21 in Palo Alto. After turning off her recorder, Jenny Stewart asked John what his future plans were. His final words to her were, “Let the chips fall where they may.” Jenny had this to add: “Ironically, our interview started with us joking around about his inclusion in a celebrity death hoax scam that had gone viral. He humbly thought that he was being confused with the actor John Hurt, who had died in January. I offered that he, John Heard, was now part of an elite crowd of performers whose deaths were faked on social media. John was a contradiction of terms. He came from the Washington D.C. establishment, yet spoke—and sometimes acted—like a character from Easy Rider. He was gritty, yet mannered, dangerously funny yet hermetic in times of self-doubt. He initially wanted to take a safer path in life, but ended up on Mr. Toad’s Wild Ride, which brought him celebrity and, I hope, happiness.”

You will never see Joe Morton on one of those online lists of 10 Director’s Nightmares. He has the unique ability to blend seamlessly into an ensemble cast while simultaneously making every part his own. He commands attention and respect without chewing the scenery. He conveys nuanced emotion without uttering a word, yet when he speaks he can dramatically alter the pace and direction of a scene. Morton portrays good guys, bad guys, scientists and aliens with equal aplomb, which makes him one of Hollywood’s most in-demand actors. As CIA black ops boss Rowan Pope on ABC’s hit series Scandal, he gets to play one of the tastiest characters of his career. Robert Piper caught up with Morton in Los Angeles, three time zones away from his New Jersey home.

EDGE: Your character Rowan Pope on Scandal is the quintessential nightmare dad. You’ve played so many good guys over the years, is it kind of fun playing a bad guy?

JM: Absolutely! When I came out to LA, I was actually looking for a really smart bad guy and this guy literally fell into my lap. So, it was perfect timing on everybody’s part.

Sony Broadway

EDGE: You’ve actually played a number of complex dads over the years. What kind of dad did you grow up with?

JM: My father was an Army captain and his job was to integrate the armed forces overseas. That meant that he and his family sort of showed up at whatever army post he was sent to, racially unannounced. When we arrived, all [hell] sort of would break loose. It was rough wherever we were. So that was my model. That kind of discipline, that kind of strength, that kind of courage in a certain way. It’s kind of what Rowan Pope is endowed with.

EDGE: Did we see any of Joe Sr. in Lone Star?

JM: Oh, absolutely! My father died when I was 10, so I think that a lot of who I am as an adult is some sort of—“reflection” is not exactly the right word—but an “investigation” of who my father was.

Cinecom Pictures

EDGE: Lone Star was your third movie with John Sayles. Was there a New Jersey connection at that point?

JM: I moved to Jersey after The Brother from Another Planet. It was somewhere in the middle of all of that. But it wasn’t so much the Jersey connection. When we did The Brother, we sort of enjoyed working together. He’s very loyal to the actors that work with him. So he would invite many of us back.

EDGE: What do you feel distinguishes Sayles as a film maker?

JM: Well he’s a social “commentarian,” isn’t he? His movies aren’t simply about good guys and bad guys. They’re usually about workers in management, people sort of in their lives, having to work and deal with authority figures. So I think a lot of what his work is about is the common man dealing with the powers that be.

EDGE: What were the challenges working out your character, who was a mute alien, in The Brother from Another Planet?

JM: It was a lot of fun. Because he couldn’t speak, that sort of allowed me to use my whole body to express whatever it is that needed to be expressed, and just gave another dimension to the joy of that character in a way that I hadn’t found in other characters. Also, the idea of a black man who has tons of talents but no place to channel them at all because of his social and economical situation, who couldn’t move forward, is what I really loved about the script and about the character. I loved what John and I created in that movie.

EDGE: Earlier in your career, you had interesting roles in a sitcom, soap operas and on the stage. Who were the people who influenced your approach to acting during those times?

JM: Probably my teachers. I had some wonderful teachers at Hofstra University, including Carol Sica and Miriam Tulin. I probably didn’t start thinking about acting until I got to college. A lot of what they taught me—how to approach a character, what my investment in the story was, what I wanted essentially—was what I was using at that period of my life. And still today.

EDGE: What do you consider your first really good performance?

TriStar Pictures

JM: [Laughs] My first really good performance. Hmm. Well, it depends. On a professional level? The Brother from Another Planet is still my favorite film. I played Colin Powell on stage in Stuff Happens, which was an amazing experience.

EDGE: You’ve served as a narrator on a number of historical projects.  Are you a fan of history?

JM: I am, yes.

EDGE: You’ve also worked on dozens of TV series. Is there a moment that stands out as being particularly memorable?

JM: I did a series years ago called Equal Justice. Vanessa Bell Calloway played my wife or played my girlfriend in the series and she got killed. I’m a lawyer, the head prosecutor. I don’t necessarily try that case, but I find out later that the guy gets off, he gets away with it. There was a moment between Cotter Smith and me in an empty courtroom were he tells me what happened, and I sort of respond to it. That’s one of those moments where you’ve hit it and you know you’ve hit it. It felt really good.

EDGE: Is directing something you’d like to do more of?

JM: I would. I was hoping that Proof was going to carry on a bit longer. I was hoping to direct an episode or two of that. So yes, I would like to do more directing. I really enjoy it.

EDGE: Where do you go for “local flavor” when you’re home?

JM: I enjoy cooking, so I don’t go out to restaurants often. But when I don’t feel like cooking—or have just returned from traveling and just want to go out quickly to get something to eat—I tend to go to the Court Jester in Matawan. It’s near where I’m staying. It’s a cozy sports bar. I like the easy vibe of it.

EDGE: What is it that drew you to New Jersey?

Photo by Bobby Quillard

JM: Well, I was married and I had kids, young children at the time. Montclair, if it has an industry, it’s education—it has great public schools. So we found this house on a cul-de-sac, next to a park, with a red-leaf oak in front of the house. And that’s what drew us to New Jersey. It was a place that we could afford and it had great schools. It was this beautiful sort of diverse neighborhood, that had a park at the end of it, and that’s what got us there.

EDGE: What have you come to appreciate most about the Garden State?

JM: I think the thing that comes to mind always is that most people outside of New Jersey only think of what they see when they exit either tunnel on their way out of the city. What’s great about the Garden State is just that—that it is a garden state. It’s actually a beautiful state. There are areas of New Jersey that are just wonderfully attractive and beautiful, especially in the fall. It’s not the oil refineries or whatever is outside of the tunnels. People need to spend more time looking at the landscapes of New Jersey.

Editor’s Note: Robert Piper is a freelance writer based in Chicago. He has written extensively on the subject of meditation and has taught physicians, psychologists, physical therapists, athletes, and business professionals. Robert spent nine and half years studying with a Taoist monk until he received the title of Master. He is the author of the popular book Meditation Muscle.

More than one historian has observed that New Jersey has a legitimate claim to being the golden cradle of American popular culture. A decade before the first cameras rolled in Hollywood, Fort Lee was the birthplace of the motion picture industry. A half-century before Las Vegas, Atlantic City was America’s first playground. Red Bank produced Count Basie, Hoboken Frank Sinatra. In 1926, the Patron Saint of Comedy, Jerry Lewis, entered the world in Newark and later announced his arrival with the immortal words Hey Laaaaady! This fall, the 90-year-old Lewis starred in the title role of Max Rose, portraying an octogenarian pianist dealing with the loss of his beloved wife. Filmmakers Luke Sacher and Carole Langer have known Lewis and his family for decades. They asked him to peel back the veneer on his 70-plus years in show business and talk about the Jerry that his fans rarely get to see.    

Soapbox Productions

EDGE: When you and Dean Martin began working together at the 500 Club in Atlantic City, were you looking for a partner? 

JL: No, it was an accident. I wasn’t looking for anything. The singer got laryngitis, and [club owner] Skinny D’Amato said to me, “Do you know anybody?” After the first night he was on the stage with me, I knew we had lightning in a bottle. He was just hoping to get through the two weeks so he could pay a car payment. When I took Dean for a tux after two weeks, he said, “What the hell do we need tuxes for?” I said, “Because, before the end of a year, we’re going to be making around five thousand bucks a week.” He said, “You’re crazy! You’re nuts. We’re going to go and spend three hundred a piece for tuxedos?” I said, “Trust me. Let’s just do it. We’re going to have to look like what they’re spending.” And in less than six months, we were getting five thousand a week.

Soapbox Productions

I was writing immediately, the minute I got him in Atlantic City. But listen…he was a klutz. Dean moved on the stage like he had three pounds of [poop] in his pants! He was the klutz of the world! After we were together a couple of years, he started to take on a little bit of ambiance, and movement and grace, because we were learning, and we were honing our profession, our craft.

If he didn’t have to put his mind to work, he didn’t. Yep. He could take a nap fifteen minutes before opening night at the London Palladium with Her Majesty the Queen in the audience. We always knew that, the way we had it—I handled the business, I did the editing, I did the writing—it worked.

He played golf. But, it’s very important to say for Dean that when he came from the golf course, and I finished writing the material, and we would put it on its feet, he knew it in five minutes. And [his timing] was impeccable. It could be on take one, he had it so well. What [people] didn’t understand was that they couldn’t have seen me if he wasn’t there. He was the spine of the whole act. I did tell him the following: “You can’t take a pratfall in a grey suit. It doesn’t work.” He said, “Why?” I said, “’Cause you can go down to the Bowery and see fifty, sixty grey suits laying in the gutter. But when you take a fall on a dusty floor, wearing a three thousand dollar tux. That’s funny.”

Dean was my hero, my big brother. My confidant.  And one thing I knew best about him was that he hated pathos. Because it would dig in and find something that he was working so hard and so desperately to keep behind the facade. Let me tell you how he was brought up. He was brought up by an old Italian family, who gave him a couple of prerequisites: 1) grown men don’t cry and 2) you never take money out of your pocket, you just put it in. You share with no one. And 3) there is no one on earth that cares about you. You, therefore, have no reason to care about anyone else. That was his training. And they did a good job. The only man that ever got through to Dean was me, because of my passion, because of how much I loved him.

EDGE: Besides raising money for causes like muscular dystrophy, you have used your stature in the business time and again to stand up for friends and co-workers. 

JL: I’ve never used fame or power for myself. With the exception of underdogs, of course, or people that are maligned or demeaned and have no recourse. I love to get on my white charger…I had it as a kid, in grammar school. If I saw somebody that was being unjustifiably treated, I had to do something about it. I didn’t see anyone else doing anything about it, I always had to. I had a Holden Caulfield kind of a gut that drove me to do the things that I did. And I find that in my older years, as I look back, I feel tremendous self-esteem for what I did. Talking about them sometimes diminishes them; I’m not often comfortable talking about the nice things that you do. I’m not sure if it’s a selfless act—I have a feeling it’s a selfish one. Because I get so much pleasure out of seeing that they’re not demeaned anymore.

I’ve always had a fair doctrine that runs through my blood. If I see a producer bump into my camera operator, or my sound man, or my grips or my electricians—and doesn’t even know their names—I’m going to teach him a lesson in manners. I’m very protective of the people I work with. Because I know that they are the unsung heroes of everything I’ve done. 

I remember a time, in the early 1960s, Paramount brought an efficiency expert out to Los Angeles. He thought it would be a good idea to get rid of the watchman on the West Gate at Paramount Studios. Now, I grew up with this watchman. From the time I came to that studio, Jess was my friend. They dismissed him, after 42 years. It was a bean pusher who picked the name out of a hat, and that was that. So I called Joe Stabile [my executive producer]. I said, “Get a Mayflower moving van and have it parked outside my office. We’re out of here!” The Mayflower van got there, and it was a humongous 18-wheeler. Y. Frank Freeman, the Chairman of the Board of Paramount West Coast, could see it from his office. I went into Y. Frank Freeman’s office, and said, “You see that truck, Frank? That’s going to have all of my office and all of my staff. We’re going to load it in, and drive off this lot, if Jess doesn’t get his job back.”

He looked at me and he said, “Well, I don’t really understand. You bring this company 800 million dollars in film rentals. Isn’t that a larger issue than one man?” 

I said, “You’re not listening to me. If you can’t put the price on one man’s life, 800 million doesn’t mean a thing. And you didn’t know it was happening, Frank. An ‘efficiency expert’ has done this, and I’m expecting you to fix it so that I can pay this guy that drove this Mayflower truck—pay him a nice little gratuity—and have the truck depart from the studio.”

EDGE: You also stood up for Sammy Davis Jr. in Las Vegas when he was performing with the Step Brothers.

JL: Absolutely. Vegas in the ’50s was still pretty much like the Deep South. One night after a performance, I saw Sammy in the dressing room—having dinner! And in the next dressing room were the Step Brothers having dinner. I said, “What the hell is going on here?” He said, “We’re not allowed in the Garden Room.” 

So I went to a couple of my friends who ran the hotel and I said, “I don’t think you’ve got a show at midnight—and it’s a Saturday—unless you start adjusting some of your rules. The Step Brothers will eat in the Garden Room, and go anywhere they want in the hotel. Or I’ll do one of two things: not appear, and/or have a press conference. And let the rest of the world know that you’re building this empire on the kind of stuff that we’re trying to get out of this country. It was fixed.

Soapbox Productions

Sammy and I were friends for 45 years. We had a Damon and Pythias friendship, closer than any man and wife, closer than any two friends could ever be. The reason we were that way was because we didn’t take ourselves too seriously. We made jokes about the stupidity of ignorance, and the stupidity of racism. We had the best time laughing at all of that crap! I said to him, when he converted to Judaism, “You didn’t have enough trouble being black?Jesus Christ, I mean, you got a death wish? You’re black and you want to be a Jew also?” I said, “All we have to do is have a car accident, and you’d lose one eye!” And sure enough…

I was there the night of the accident. It was a very straightforward accident. He was driving straight, and a car hit him head-on. No reason, no nothing. He was on his way to Los Angeles, felt like driving, to relax, and he was hit by an oncoming car. He was lucky to be alive, but he lost his eye. I sent him watermelon and Kentucky Fried Chicken in the hospital, so he’d be comfortable. And Matzo!

EDGE: When did you first meet Sammy?

JL: Let me see, the year had to be 1950, Ciro’s Night Club, Sunset Boulevard, Los Angeles. I went to see [him with] the Will Mastin Trio, and I knew I was experiencing lightning in a bottle. His presence on the stage felt like there were fans that were pushing you into the back of your seat. I hadn’t had a feeling like that since I saw Jolson when I was five years old. At the end of the show, I went backstage to see him. He was young, it was the first big shot for them, and I had some notes for him. And I’ll never forget his first remark. He said, “We haven’t met yet and you’re monitoring me?”

I said, “You’re doing some things on that stage that border on genius, and then you turn around, and you do some things on that stage that border on amateur. So I thought I would mention it to you. ’Cause you don’t need the latter.” One of the notes that I gave him that first night was you can’t walk out looking like a bookie at a racetrack. Which is what he looked like. I also gave him a couple of ideas about transposing material. He did some wonderfully strong things too early, and couldn’t rise above them—though he stopped the show cold. It was an incredible performance.

EDGE: Who did you learn the most from during your career?

JL: My father. My father taught me everything…I’m just still trying to get it right. He was the most brilliant performer that ever lived. He did the mime better than I did, he conducted better than I did, he was funnier than I ever was, he sang better than I ever sang, he danced better, he had an Astaire kind of quality. The women absolutely went nuts when he would sing a love song, and in a heartbeat he’d have his stupid hat on, doing crazy walks that I learned from him. I learned everything from my dad.

He was right about a lot of things. He was right about, when you walk out on the stage, and that lady paid $70 to see you, you have only one responsibility, and that’s to work your [rear end] off. And if you’re going to be a consummate professional, he said, sweat. “I’ll be embarrassed and offended if you ever walk off that stage dry. That means you dogged it, you didn’t give 100 percent, and you’re getting careless.” He got me to where I am. Let’s put it this way. I once told somebody, most men in this world don’t mind being one of the two hundred drummers in the parade. I do mind. I had to carry the baton. You want the baton? It carries a lot of responsibility.

So it was my dad’s birthday, and I called General Motors.

Soapbox Productions

A.L. Roach was Chairman of the Board of General Motors, and I said, “My dad’s never driven a car in his life, and he’s going to be 50 years old. I want to get him a Patton Tank, so that if he gets into an accident, at least he’s surrounded by better than what they’re making today.” And I paid$100,000 to have that four-door sedan made. And in 1957 or ’58, that was a lot of money. They built it for me, F.O.B. Detroit, delivered to me in Los Angeles. I put red ribbons around it, I drove it to his house. I went up to the door, rang the bell. I said, “Happy Birthday, Dad, look!” and he said… “It’s not a convertible.”

So I was shattered for a moment or two. Then I went on to explain the reason that it’s a four-door sedan is that you’ve got much more protection. “It was built to protect you and mom.” But I never forgot he said that. He just wasn’t thinking, that’s all. He didn’t mean to hurt me. I was so full of myself then, driving so hard to reach those galaxies I dreamed about. I was very vulnerable.

The love, when it’s right, that the father has for the child—only God can explain to us the dimension of that love. And I knew that I had that from him. And I also knew that he had it for me. But when I was quitting school, he was very clear: “If you’re not going to complete your high school education and not be able to go on to college, there’s a Band-Aid that can be put on this decision you’re making. And that Band-Aid is, go out in the world, and ask everybody anything you want to know. You’ll become articulate, in some cases prolific. You’ll be bright. You’ll get an education better than anything they’d ever give you at Dartmouth—if you’ll do that. I need you to attempt that, because without a formal education, you will get shot down at some time, and not be able to recover.”  

Hopper Stone/Falco Ink

JERRY ON THE MAKING OF MAX ROSE…

The last time I read a script I thought would make a wonderful movie was The Nutty Professor. I haven’t had the experience of film making for 20 years, but you don’t forget it, you remember every frame. I fell in love with this script on the first read, which is incredibly different than normal. I’ve read scripts 15 times and couldn’t get them to work. 

What attracted me to [Max Rose] was how love can really generate a difference in the personality of a human being. I fell in love with the thought that anyone can fall in love, and that everyone will fall in love. And the beauty of love, as far as I’m concerned, is that it makes you better—it makes you stronger, it gives you direction and gives you an understanding of what life is and what we’ve been given.  

We had fun but we had to concentrate. It’s the only film I’ve ever made that kept me absolutely dedicated—without any adjustments or additions. Just do the script—the script is honest, it was written well. There was nothing I could do, other than spoil it, other than to do the scripted material. 

AT THE COPA, COPA CABANA… 

In April 1948, Dean and Jerry were booked into New York City’s Copacabana—arguably the most prestigious nightclub in America—as the supporting act for movie star and songstress Vivian Blaine. Blaine would be cast as Adelaide in the original Broadway production of Guys and Dolls two years later. The Copa was owned and managed by Jules Podell, whose connections to the mob were common knowledge. 

Sonny King, one of the great lounge singers of that era, once explained to me: “Look, they owned all the clubs and showrooms all over the country, right? New York, Philly, Atlantic City, Chicago, Hollywood, Vegas. So who are you gonna work for? The guy who owns the delicatessen?”

Anyway, on opening night, the crowd went wild for Dean and Jerry, and simply wouldn’t let them off the stage. Vivian Blaine was forced to come on late and shorten her act. At the end of the show, Podell told Blaine that she would now be opening for Martin and Lewis—not only the following night, but for the rest of her booking. She quit.

One night later that week, between the early and late shows, Dean was chatting with maître d’, Joe Lopez, while Jerry was working the bar with his “whacko” routine. Suddenly, a very well-dressed older man with a serious face shouted at Lewis Why don’t you knock it off and shut up!

Jerry stayed in character, pointed at the man, and retorted just as loudly, “See, folks? That’s what happens when cousins get married.”

The man rose from his chair, approached Lewis, and informed him that if he opened his mouth one more time, he would be collecting his own teeth from the floor. Jerry took just long enough to respond for Dean to rush over and apologize for his younger partner’s rudeness. Sensing he had crossed a line, Jerry apologized, too.

Keep your partner away from me, the man warned Dean, as he escorted Jerry away. 

“You tell him he’s lucky I got a sense of humor!”

Dean informed Jerry moments later that they had just apologized to Albert Anastasia (right), known less for his sense of humor than for his status as lord high executioner of Murder Incorporated. 

Editor’s Note: The stories in this feature were recounted by Jerry to Carole Langer during the making of an A&E documentary. His thoughts on Max Rose followed a later screening of the film in Las Vegas. Carole was nominated for a Primetime Emmy for her Biography episode on Frank Sinatra and the Rat Pack, and received the DuPont Silver Baton for “Who Killed Adam Mann?” on PBS Frontline. Luke Sacher—an Emmy-nominated videographer, writer and editor who shot and edited both programs—has been a friend to (and fan of) some of the true legends of the entertainment world. Janet Leigh was like an aunt to him, he recalls. “She was one of the best women that ever lived. My grandfather, actor/director Abner Biberman, was Tony Curtis’s first drama coach. Both Tony and Janet were best friends with Jerry Lewis. Tony once told me that Frank Sinatra was ‘the teacher of all of us.’ But I’ve always felt, personally, that Jerry was my most important teacher as a child. His movies were more than just silly fun to me…they were moral lessons that helped mold my sense of right and wrong, and championed the power of love and kindness and empathy to make life worth living. No fooling.”

Idol worship has come to New Jersey in the form of Jackie Cole, a spunky blond teenage chanteuse known to millions of music fans by her three-letter nickname, Jax. A native of East Brunswick, Jax powered her way to the finals of American Idol (Season 14) this spring, making it farther than any New Jersey singer in the show’s history. She is an original in every sense of the word—her look, her attitude and her voice—right down to the (non-permanent) trademark X on her left cheek. Tracey Smith caught Jax heading into the Final 3.

Somehow, she fell one round short of victory…but we suspect we’ll be hearing from her long after the two finalists have faded from memory.

EDGE: What kind of advice do American Idol contestants get from the judges?

JC: All three of the judges commented that I am an artistic person and to stay artistic and focus on being creative. The most inspiring advice was to stay in the moment, stay present, because you can lose yourself in a lot of other moments, instead of the one you’re actually in. In the performance, it’s important to stay in the moment.

EDGE: What goes through your head when you perform in front of millions of television viewers?

JC: It depends on the song. I often think of my parents and family members—because they’re sitting right in front of me!They are getting to watch the most incredible experience of my lifetime. Sometimes I’ll think about a guy, again, depending on the lyrics. A lot of times I’ll just think about myself.

EDGE: How far back can you trace your singing career?

JC: I have been singing since I was able to talk. And I was fortunate enough to have known my calling as an entertainer for a very long time—since I was the age of three. I’ve always wanted to sing. As far back as I can remember.

EDGE: What have your musical influences been?

Fox Broadcasting Network

JC: I love all kinds of music. When I say that, I really mean it. I love music from the 40’s and on! I think my number-one inspiration was probably Janis Joplin. It’s pretty cool to perform her songs.  I’m influenced by all women of power, like Joan Jett and Stevie Nicks, who I actually just saw live with Fleetwood Mac, which was insane. I like Gwen Stefani and No Doubt. I like Haley Williams a lot. And Lady Gaga. But I also like Billy Joel and Simon and Garfunkel. And whatever is new on pop radio. In terms of mentors, I have my vocal coach. He’s incredible. I go to vocal lessons once a week in the city. With the amount of singing I do, there is no choice but to keep going and improving.c

Fox Broadcasting Network

EDGE: Of the people the contestants worked with on the show, who were the most memorable?

JC: We learned something different from every one of them. I think that maybe the most enjoyment I got out of mentorship was with Kelly Clarkson, because she was a former contestant. There’s nobody who could relate to us any more than she could, in that sense. But yeah, everybody brought something different to the table. I loved Boy George, Florida Georgia Line, Nile Rodgers, everyone was really great. But Kelly Clarkson was truly the most relatable.

Fox Broadcasting Network

EDGE: As you move forward in the American Idol competition, how do you deal with the inevitable highs and lows?

JC: It’s not easy. It’s really important to find a balance between those things, because if you don’t, then you can wind up in either of those two dangerous extremes. For example, I try to stay away from comments in blogs for the most part, because if they’re really great or really awful, either way they are likely to affect my mindset.  It’s like when a football team thinks way ahead in the season and ruins the actual next game they have to play. That’s what I meant before about just having to stay in each moment.

EDGE: You know, there was a famous football coach named Bear Bryant who used to tell his players, “Show class, have pride, and display character—if you do, winning takes care of itself.”

JC: It’s true. You should be your own worst critic, you should compete with yourself and learn from your mistakes. It’s important to give off that kind of class. And I think it’s important to inspire people, to show the world that this is a beautiful thing, a beautiful process, and that however American Idol ends, we’re all just trying to leave our mark on this planet. Presenting yourself in that kind of way really shows the honesty of the process.

EDGE: And if you do win?

JC: The first thing I’m going to do is celebrate with my family and [laughs] go get some Taco Bell!

EDGE: You came into this competition as a Jersey Girl. Are you ready to spread your wings a little more?

JC: I love my hometown and New York and everything, but I want to travel. Part of my job and purpose is to touch people in as many places as I can. I am really ready to branch off.

EDGE: So have you named your first CD yet?

JC: The Undefined Variable with an X [laughs]. No, it would definitely be a pop record, but with more of a rock edge…something a little darker than your usual pop record. I want to make an honest pop record.

EDGE: What was it like to hear yourself on iTunes for the first time?

JC: It was surreal. It’s, like, people can actually pay for my recordings. I don’t even know how to feel about it. I actually bought my own recording on iTunes [laughs] and felt guilty about it. Then again, it’s really great to hear what we worked on in the studio.

What is it about northern New Jersey that produces so much show business talent? Is it a numbers game, as some claim, a result of so many people per square mile? Is it the restlessness engendered by urban sprawl, the need to move up and move out? Is it the nighttime skyline of New York City, twinkling in the distance, coaxing our hidden gems across the river? EDGE’s Gerry Strauss sat down with actor Jason Biggs to explore these questions, and to chart his course from child actor to movie franchise star to his most recent turn as a member of the spectacular ensemble cast of the Netflix hit Orange Is the New Black. What’s on the horizon for Biggs? Spoiler alert: It won’t be Guys and Dolls.

EDGE: From a career perspective, was there a benefit to growing up in Hasbrouck Heights, in terms of the proximity to New York? 

Photo by Linda Kallerus for Netflix.

JB: Without a doubt. In fact, if I had not grown up where I did, it stands to reason that I might never have gotten into show business at all. As it was, it was just eight miles between my house and Times Square. Our patience was tested plenty, fighting the rush hour traffic at the Lincoln Tunnel when I had an after-school audition. But had I lived any further away, I can’t imagine that working and auditioning in the city would have been plausible.

EDGE: Aside from the acting, was your childhood fairly typical?

JB: I played Little League baseball, Pop Warner football, and wrestled with the town recreational team. I rode my bike everywhere, swam in our pool during the humid summers, and shoveled snow for neighbors in the winter. We lived right under the flight paths for both Teterboro and Newark airports, and I would spend countless hours sitting outside, watching and identifying the planes overhead. In fact, I remain obsessed with aviation as an adult.

EDGE: How did acting find its way into the mix?

JB: My older sister, who is six years my senior, was in a dance group as a kid. Some of the other girls in the group started going into the city to try to get agents and attempt acting. My sister wanted to do the same. Our parents, thinking it could be both a fun hobby and a good way to save money for college, supported it and made it happen. When I was five, my sister’s then-manager called my mom and asked if I would want to audition for something. I did, and haven’t stopped since.

Photo by Ali Goldstein for Netflix.

EDGE: What role did your parents play in your evolution as an actor?

JB: My parents were instrumental in making it possible for me to act as a child. Logistically speaking, there was no way I could have done it without their services as chauffeurs and chaperones. But they never forced it on me—it was always my choice. They were very proud of my accomplishments as a kid, just as they are now.

EDGE: At 14, you were on Broadway with Judd Hirsch and Tony Shaloub in Conversations with My Father, and at 16 you were on As the World Turns. What did you carry forward from those early experiences as an actor?

JB: I like to think that every job I have helps prepare me for the next one. But daytime television certainly had its challenges and gave me important lessons to take into future jobs. For example, the filming schedule in daytime moves at a breakneck speed. As such, you need to be very capable when it comes to quickly and efficiently memorizing all of your lines. You don’t have much time for rehearsal. You really learn to focus and think quickly.

EDGE: You are so well known for the R-rated coming-of-age American Pie films, which continue to have an incredible following. What do you think the movie’s ultimate legacy will be?

JB: Well, it’s obviously somewhat difficult to be objective about something that I am so close to, and that is such an integral part of my life. But based on people’s reactions—and to the constantly changing demographic of the movie’s fans—I believe it will have great staying power. I look forward to helping many future generations of adolescents learn about the birds and the bees!

EDGE: On the flip side, playing the same character in a hit movie with three hit sequels is a risky proposition for anyone who thrives on playing diverse characters.  How important was it for you to pursue roles where people could see you differently than they knew you from American Pie?

JB: I’m always trying to change people’s perception of me, especially since that perception is pretty firmly attached to one role in particular. I know that I am a more complicated and multi-faceted person than I’ve been able to show in my roles, so of course I’m eager to share that. But really, the bigger point in trying to branch out is to keep things exciting for me and to continue to challenge myself by working outside my comfort zone. Ultimately, I’m grateful for any opportunity to work. This is a very fickle industry—one in which it is tough to find success, let alone maintain it.

EDGE: Was it tough to know that the world was basically watching you grow up?

JB: Truthfully, it wasn’t something I was aware of while it was happening. I’m more aware of it now though. Looking back at the footage, I can’t help but be struck by how young I look. It’s been over 15 years since the first American Pie. Of course, I thought I was such an adult then, but I obviously had so much still to learn.

Photo by K.C. Bailey for Netflix.

EDGE: Your body of work is eclectic, to say the least. From drama to comedy to voiceovers to small films. What do you look for in a role?

JB: I look for an opportunity to have fun, to challenge myself, and to work with great people. I’ve been very lucky in my career to have been able to move across different genres and different mediums, and work with people who I can learn a lot from. Ideally, every job will feel like it’s an organic next step in my career, one that will hopefully continue into the future.

EDGE: Your current show, Orange Is The New Black, is unique not just in terms of story and tone, but in the fact that it’s part of the Netflix library of original programming—with no actual presence on traditional broadcast or cable television. It sounds as if that uncharted aspect of the project might have been appealing.

JB: There is no question that a huge part of the appeal of the project was the fact that it would be streaming on Netflix. The entire television landscape has changed dramatically over the last few years. The way people consume their shows and movies is different. And Netflix is at the forefront of the movement to cater to these new demands. I feel like I’m part of something groundbreaking, something cutting-edge. It’s very cool.

EDGE: What’s different about shooting a series that’s released all at once, where people can binge watch or watch on their own schedule?

JB: What makes this model most unique—both because we shoot the whole season in its entirety and it is released in its entirety—is that it makes it more akin to a 13-hour movie, as opposed to a television show. This affects the actors on set and, as you point out, also the audience at home.

EDGE: Your character on the series, Larry Bloom, exists in real life. For you, is it more important to be accurate or entertaining?

JB: The show’s creator, Jenji Kohan, was clear from the beginning that we would be making our own show, one that could stand apart from the book and therefore from the real lives of the characters in it. It’s a necessity, really, since we are making a longer-form version of the original story—and therefore need to expand upon the original, both in storylines and ideas. So there was no real pressure on me to portray Larry in any other way than that which was dictated by the scripts. I never needed to do an “impression,” so to speak.

EDGE: Orange Is The New Black has such a talented ensemble, headed by Taylor Schilling (above left). Is there a hidden gem in the cast, one actor or performance that has really taken you by surprise?

JB: Well, it’s hard to single out one performance. This entire cast is pretty special. But the character of Tiffany “Pennsatucky” Doggett has always been a favorite of mine. Taryn Manning’s portrayal is both hilarious and heartbreaking.

EDGE: What is your own hidden gem? If you could point EDGE readers to one performance you’re particularly proud of, which would it be?

MRB Productions/Votiv Films

JB: Grassroots is a film and performance I am particularly proud of. Not unlike Orange, it required a more subtle, grounded, and emotionally true performance. It’s a cool little film that represents for me a turn toward choosing more challenging and adult roles.

EDGE: Do you still maintain any connection to your old stomping grounds in Jersey?

JB: Very much so. My parents live in the same house I grew up in. My sister lives in Bogota. I’ve remained friends with a lot of my buddies from high school, some of whom still live in North Jersey as well. I try to get back a couple times a year, and I always make it to at least one Giants game each season. They’ll always be my team, no matter where I might live.

EDGE: What aspect of Jersey life have you clung to?

JB: Well, my dietary habits remain firmly tied to my Italian-American-North-Jersey upbringing. I love cooking pasta for early Sunday dinners, for example. And my accent is likely to make the occasional appearance, especially when I’m having a conversation with one of my family members or friends from home. My wife always points it out when that happens. Fortunately for me, she thinks it’s cute.

EDGE: You’ve done so many things already in your career, but what would you like to do that you’ve never done before?

JB: Tough question. It sounds trite, but I really want to try it all—except for the things I absolutely know for certain I will never be able to do. Like singing. So don’t expect to see me in Guys and Dolls anytime soon. And if you hear that I’m in a production of it, definitely don’t go see it. It will be a waste of your money. It’s good to know your limitations, I suppose.

Photo By Chalres W. Bush

Rare is the actress who possesses the exceptional fortune and talent to star on an iconic television series. Rarer still is the leading lady with the business acumen to use that role to launch a parallel career that fulfills her greater ambitions. And then there is Jaclyn Smith, a transcendental beauty who understood, perhaps better than any entertainer of her time, how mass appeal can evolve into an indelible brand. EDGE editor Zack Burgess connected with Smith in Los Angeles and, in doing so, got to live out a PG-rated fantasy shared by other children of the ’70s…he got to play Charlie on the speakerphone for a half-hour!

EDGE: Charlie’s Angels was a unique, unproven concept in its time. Did you sense it would make stars out of its three leads?

JS: Absolutely not. And I think that’s what made it a hit.

EDGE: How so?

JS: We went into it with an open mind. We were friends. We were not desperate, ambitious actresses. We all had proper training, so we explored that first year and really learned what was going to make the show work as time went on. I don’t think any of us thought that it would change our lives. We were surprised—and I think even the producers were shocked—at our ratings. Our ratings went through the roof. We were almost always number one, number two…really up there in the top five. We even beat Gone With the Wind one night!That was kind of amazing—my favorite movie of all time. It was sort of like we were rock stars, only overnight. We had no concept of the impact Charlie’s Angels would have.

EDGE: Did you read for the role of Kelly Garrett initially?

JS: Kelly was initially Kate Jackson’s role, because it was the largest role in the pilot. She was cast from day one; she had already worked with Aaron Spelling. But after reading the script, she liked Sabrina because the description of the character was more of a stretch—the glamour, the clothes, coming from a fine family—but oddly enough, once the show took hold, our own personalities sort of meshed into our own characters. Farrah and I—and later Cheryl (Ladd)—loved clothes. Kate never loved fashion that much, so she chose to stand behind the bar and wear a turtleneck and slacks.

EDGE: Kate was the veteran of the trio in terms of TV work. Did she assume a leadership role that first season?

JS: I think she was the leader that first year. She had done Dark Shadows and then she did The Rookies, so she was just more seasoned. It was nice to have someone who could enlighten us on certain things that we needed to know. But as time went on, we were all equals. That’s what made it work. We just wanted to work together and be cohesive as a team. And that’s really what it was about—three girls on the screen at the same time. That was the concept of the show.

EDGE: Yet critics often took shots at Charlie’s Angels, saying it objectified women. Given the environment of 1970s network television, I think the show was empowering and uplifting.

JS: Yes, it was.

EDGE: Each character also reached a different type of viewer.

JS: There was another strength of the show. We all had our own individual personalities and there was someone for everyone. If someone liked a strong character, they went for Kate. Sexy, Farrah. Me, more of the gentle spirit. Also, we were all—how do I put it?—I think we came off as really caring for each other, which we did. We were friends above all. We were having fun on the screen and I think people found that cohesiveness appealing.

EDGE: Given that cohesiveness, how did you deal with Farrah leaving after the first season?

JS: We said okay, we’ve got to keep it moving. There was a sadness, because we’d had a great first year and we wanted her to stay. However, when you care about someone and they’re not happy, then you have to accept it. I will say that first year was hard to duplicate. But Cheryl came in and filled some impossible shoes. She was amazing. She had such a good attitude and she was great and, again, very appealing. People continued to love the show. I’m very close friends with Cheryl now. I was really fortunate to be on Charlie’s Angels. It reached a very broad demographic and it was one of the first of its kind. It was glamorous, it was fun, and it gave people a period of escapism.

EDGE: What are your thoughts on the movies, and the Charlie’s Angels series that aired in 2011?

JS: The series didn’t work. The two movies did. They were hits. I think there was a darkness to the movies, which wasn’t really our concept. It had nothing to do with the casting, just the subject matter, which was trying to be more contemporary. We were light, we were fun. You know, I did a cameo in the second one and it was really fun. I must admit, I didn’t want to, but Drew (Barrymore) called me and convinced me. We really had fun that day.

EDGE: You ended up taking a lot of TV movie roles after Kelly Garrett. The best remembered might be Jackie Kennedy. Was that the first time you’d played a living public figure?

JS: Yes—and it was frightening! But I loved every minute of it. I had to test for that role, because they said We don’t want an Angel doing Jacqueline’s role, but they liked what they saw. It was a real honor to play her, because I truly admired her. I admired her mostly as a mother. I couldn’t believe the beauty of her. You know, she created Camelot—that was the magic of Jacqueline. I loved playing her, and I loved playing the most beautiful part of life, falling in love with John Kennedy, even though there was heartache.

EDGE: What were some of the unusual challenges that role presented?

JS: Just the fear of not capturing her in the most real way. I’m from Texas and she’s from New England. So you have to drop your R’s. I had a dialect coach, Robert Easton, who stayed with me the whole time. I thought I would just go for the essence—after all, who can be Jacqueline Kennedy?

EDGE: I think of all the merchandising done around Charlie’s Angels and it makes me curious. You’ve established yourself as a successful consumer brand. Is there a connection between the two?

Photo by Charles W. Bush

JS: No, it wasn’t Charlie’s Angels, although Charlie’s Angels made it possible. I was a household name and the people at Kmart thought this is the girl to do a designer line here. They approached me and I had to turn them down, because I was under contract with Max Factor at the time. Max Factor felt that wasn’t my audience, not my customer.

Still, I agreed to take a meeting, and I couldn’t believe the line of clothes I saw in there. It was so beautiful and the price points so affordable. I thought, Wow! My mother had wanted to be a dress designer and I had designed my senior prom dress among other things, and I thought if I could have total input…

EDGE: Meaning…

JS: Meaning everything. Everything from the hangtags to the commercials to where a button goes on a blouse. And they informed me that that’s what they wanted. So I took it on, and it was one of the best decisions I have made in my career—even though a lot of people advised me against it. It’s been 29 years and I’m in homes with sheets and rugs and dishes and glasses, and bathroom accessories. It’s a whole one-stop shop. My apparel is so beautiful today. It’s hard to believe that we can do the things that we do, with the prices that we have.

EDGE: There’s a giving back component to your brand.

JS: There is. Value has always been important to my customer and that’s something I have always wanted to deliver. Not everyone can go and spend a $1,000 on a blouse or an outfit. So I’m really proud. Also, Kmart has made it possible for me to give portions of sales at different times to causes for breast cancer research, because I’m a breast cancer survivor. At Christmastime we always create a little toy and a portion of that always goes to the children at St. Jude Hospital. So they’re very morally conscious, which makes me feel really proud to be a part of this family at Kmart. It’s as much a part of my history as Charlie’s Angels. It really is.

EDGE: How has the Jaclyn Smith brand branched out beyond the Kmart relationship?

JS: I also have a beautiful line of fabrics in fabric stores and with interior designers. The line has been successful because, again, the quality and value is there. They are just very high-end looking. My husband and I—he’s a doctor—also developed a skincare line. If you go to jaclynsmithbeauty.com you can read all about it. I also have a line of wigs. There, again, they’re very affordable. Today, wigs are a fashion statement. But for people who go through chemo, they can get one of my wigs for a very reasonable price. And thinking of them, we’ve used silicone, which is soft and cushiony for people who have lost their hair. It just adheres to your head. You are constantly asking How can we make this better? What can we do to lower price?

EDGE: What’s the difference between Jaclyn Smith the actress and Jaclyn Smith the business person?

Photo by Metthew Rolston

JS: Business is a whole different world as opposed to acting—taking a script and breaking it down, creating a character, I can go into my room and analyze a scene and do it a million different ways. Business is harder. There are certain things in business and branding that just take a team to bring it together and do it right. Everything that I have done in business has been challenging, and I think that’s invigorating to a certain extent because you’re constantly learning something new, constantly rethinking, and reinventing it, going in a direction that you never thought you’d go. As for branding, it’s ongoing. Every day. Going to your desk and figuring out what you are going to do in this collection. I’ve loved it. It’s all under the umbrella of being creative. It’s a wonderful, challenging thing that I am doing today, because I’m giving back to a customer that has been very loyal to me.

EDGE: I have to ask…did you ever get to meet John Forsythe face-to-face?

JS: Oh, yeah (laughs). On the show, though, you’re right, he didn’t come down to the set. I did a movie called The Users with John, so we were friends. But during the run of the show, he made it a point not to come down.

EDGE: With all you’ve experienced in the public eye, what do you ultimately want your legacy to be?

JS: I’m a family girl. The main thing in my life is my family. I’m proud of the work that I have done. I want to be known as a great individual—a person who lived beyond myself, a person who gave back to the world. I want my legacy to be that I have contributed, whether it’s to breast cancer, to children or whether it’s my line of clothes. I want to be known as a person who brought enlightenment to people’s lives, and made their lives a  little better, made the day a little easier.

When Princeton-educated F. Scott Fitzgerald wrote that there are no second acts in American lives, it is unlikely he imagined someone like Yale-educated Harry Hamlin. Like the figment of a talent agent’s imagination, Hamlin arrived on the entertainment scene in the late 1970s with a killer combination of easy charm, classic good looks, impeccable stage training and a knack for making parts his own. After reaching the apex of his profession in the 1980s, he backed out of the spotlight to raise his family. When Hamlin decided to get back into the game, his timing couldn’t have been better. Yet, as Editor-at-Large Tracey Smith discovered, when it came to landing the role of Jim Cutler in Mad Men, timing wasn’t everything.

EDGE: In 2014–15, you are a cast member of Mad Men and Shameless. They are wildly different shows. Are they wildly different sets?

HH: No. They’re both extremely professional. John Wells and Matt Weiner are two of the most accomplished and professional writer/show-runners that have ever existed. So you can imagine that everything is extremely well thought- out on both sets. There are very few differences, other than the fact that on the Shameless set you’re not allowed to have any sides. Sides are small versions of the script that are handed out every day, kind of a crib sheet for the actors. John Wells doesn’t permit them; he demands that the actors know all of their lines in advance.  Normally, the sides are right there in your dressing room and you look at them to find out what scene you’re doing first and what the order of the scenes is, and what words you may need to brush up on. In the car on the way over to the set from the studio, Emmy Rossum said, “You’d better know your lines—if you don’t, you’re in deep trouble with John Wells and he’ll never hire you again!” (laughs) So, it’s a good thing I knew my lines.

EDGE: How did your casting experience compare on the two shows?

HH: For Shameless, I was offered the role and didn’t need to read for it, or even meet John Wells. He obviously knew who I was. Matt Weiner has a policy where he meets everybody that comes on the show, and reads everybody that comes on the show. But he normally doesn’t cast anyone who has a profile. He likes actors to be somewhat known, but not really, really well known.  In my case, there have been times in my career when I have been really, really well known, but not so much lately, because I took some time off to raise my kids. Anyway, I was surprised to get the call from my agent to go in and meet Matt and read for a part they called “Swinger Boss” for Mad Men. They told me it would be a one- or two-episode part. I was a fan of Matt’s, and I loved the show, so I agreed to go in.

EDGE: But Matt obviously knew who you were.

Photo by Eiske Photography

HH: Yes. The casting directors told me later that they had to spirit me into the room by putting a fake name on the docket for Matt, because they wanted him to see me for this part—but they knew that if he saw my name on the docket he probably would say, “Wait a minute, what’s he doing here? I don’t see guys who are well known.” So as soon as I walked through the door, there wasn’t much Matt could do but say, “Oh. Hi. How are you? Welcome and let’s read the part.” So I read for the part…and didn’t get it. I was disappointed, because I wanted to work on Mad Men.  But a few months later, they called and offered me another part. They didn’t tell me it was Jim Cutler. They said it might go for two episodes, but definitely one. Once again, I said to myself, Well, I don’t really do just one episode, but then [my wife] Lisa said, “Come on! It’s Mad Men! You should go in and do it…maybe you could get Jon Hamm’s autograph!” (laughs) So I did. I went in, got the part, and it expanded and became what it has become now.

EDGE: Cutler seems like a deep pool, a pragmatist who plays everything close to the vest. What do you like about that part?

HH: I like that he’s quirky. It’s a chance to play a character that’s somewhat eccentric or a little bit off. I saw Jim being at somewhat of an angle to reality—not exactly a right angle to reality, but maybe thirty degrees off. In my opinion, he has potentially another secret life that has not been revealed. They gave me a lot of latitude to create the character that I wanted to create. I had to say the words they gave me, but when it came to my behavior, they kind of let me loose.

EDGE: Do we see any Harry Hamlin in Jim Cutler?

HH: No. The rhythm and how he holds his body, I don’t do that at all in life. I actually used my 10th Grade Latin teacher as a kind of a template. I remember him being pretty tightly wound.

EDGE: How would you characterize the quality of the writing on Mad Men?

HH: Every single word is well thought out—the choice of every comma, every single nuance of the language. There’s nothing there by accident, and there’s nothing there that hasn’t been embedded over and over again to make sure that the cadence that the actors deliver is exactly the cadence that they want to hear. Oftentimes, narrative dialogue is very right-on-the-money; it’s not how people actually speak. In Mad Men, they have integrated spontaneity into the dialogue.

EDGE: You mentioned taking time off to raise your children. What was behind that decision?

HH: I deliberately stepped back from the business when my new flock of kids was born. The hours that we keep on TV shows just do not jibe with raising a family, and with films you’re going on location all the time. It was the late 1990s and the business essentially left L.A. right about the same time the kids were born. You’ll recall that the Canadian dollar went way down, and incentives began to be put into place in different states; Hollywood ceased to be Hollywood about fifteen years ago.  When that happened, I said to Lisa, “I’m going to keep working, but I’m only going to work here in L.A. because I want to put these kids to bed every night. We’re going to have to figure out a way to make ends meet and make our lives work with that arrangement.” I already had a son and didn’t get a chance to spend any time with him, because he grew up in Rome and I was working all the time. I was devastated by that, and am to this day. You don’t want to have kids and not be there with them growing up. The most important thing in life is the legacy one leaves with their children. The ability to raise a solid family and be part of it, I think, is the greatest effort that we can make in life. So, I just said, “You know what? We’ll figure something out. I’ll write a book or I’ll do some reality TV, or we’ll do whatever is required to stay in town so that we can put our kids to bed every night.”

EDGE: And it worked.

HH: It did. We were able to do it. Lisa and I both worked and kept the fire going. Then, when the kids were old enough, around 13 or 14, I said, “It’s time now for me to go back to work.” I called my agent and said, “Let’s see what we can find.” Veronica Mars shot here, so I could do that. Army Wives shot in South Carolina. By then, though, I could leave for a while. Curb Your Enthusiasm came up and that was a lucky stroke. Then Shameless came up and people liked that, and then I got Mad Men. I have been very fortunate that things have worked out as well as they have.

EDGE: Final question…Perseus 1981 or Perseus 2010—which Clash of the Titans am I renting tonight?

Warner Bros

HH: Well it had better be 1981! (laughs) Little known fact about Clash of the Titans that Matt Weiner revealed to me on my first day working on Mad Men. They were in the process of casting Jim Cutler and Matt’s 13-year-old son was having a bunch of guys over for a sleepover birthday party. He told his son he could rent any movie he wanted and watch it in the screening room, and his son picked my version of Clash of the Titans. Matt said, “You were on my mind two weeks ago when my son asked to have this movie screened at the house.” That’s 30-some years after this film was made. That a kid would still ask to have that movie screened at his birthday party, I was amazed by that. I don’t know whether that had anything to do with his decision to cast me for the role, but that was something he told me my first day working with him.

EDGE: What do you recall about Clash of the Titans?

HH: Well, we kind of skewered the mythology a little bit. At Yale, I wrote my thesis on Myth and Drama. When I got the script for Clash of the Titans many years later, I noticed that the story was all screwed up. Perseus never rode a Pegasus in the original myth. Also, about three-quarters of the way through filming in Malta, they informed me that I would not be cutting off Medusa’s head with a sword. They had been told by the studio in London that the movie might get an X rating for violence, so I couldn’t do it. I said, “If that’s the case, you’re going to have to find somebody else to finish the movie because I’m going back to Los Angeles tonight.” They totally freaked out. They locked me in my trailer and unplugged the electricity. I still refused to do the shot. “You’ve screwed up the mythology so much in this movie—and now you want me to cut Medusa’s head off with my shield? Like a Frisbee? I’m not gonna do it!”

EDGE: You won that one.

HH: Yes, I did.

Editor’s Note: Tracey Smith took Harry Hamlin back to his days as a teenager and 20-something, and also quizzed him on his starring role on L.A. Law. Log onto edgemagonline.com to read more of their Q&A.

Photo by NBCUniversal/Heidi Gutman

The entertainment industry is full of people who play Mr. Nice Guy. The list of stars who actually are nice is considerably shorter. If Harry Connick, Jr. wanted to be a jerk, he could probably pull it off. He has the money, talent, work ethic and show biz instincts to live by his own set of rules and torture the folks around him—and still make his fans believe he’s their pal. That Connick is, by all accounts, one of the true sweethearts in the business makes his sustained stardom all the more remarkable. Since his breakthrough as a virtuoso musician and Sinatra-caliber crooner in the 1980s, he has conquered film and television as both a dramatic and comic actor, connected with Reality TV audiences as himself on American Idol, and used his fame to make a difference in the actual reality of his beloved New Orleans. Now Connick is leaving his imprint on the daytime talk space—to rave reviews—with Harry, and also revisiting his iconic role in NBC’s reboot of Will & Grace. As Gerry Strauss discovered, when Connick decides to tackle a new project, there is little doubt about the outcome. The NFL Saints will be looking for a new quarterback one of these days. Do you think…nah.   

Enigma Productions/Warner Bros.

EDGE: What aspects of stardom are most rewarding for you?Creative freedom? Being able to make a difference in other people’s lives? Doing right by your family?  

HC: I’d say the first two things are probably a tie. I mean, creative freedom is way up there, only because all I really want to do is try to function artistically on as high a level as I can. Success gives you the ability to do that. I get to work with great musicians, and I have the facilities that I need to improve. It’s like a chemist. If he’s successful, he gets to have a great lab to work in and that expedites the creative process, so that helps immensely. The ability to be heard is important, too, especially in times when your voice can make a difference. I think back to times when, had I not had a public platform upon which to stand, I would not have been able to do things like start the Crew of Orpheus, which was the first multi-racial, multi-gender major Mardi Gras parade in New Orleans. Or start the Musician’s Village, which is an incredible project that Branford Marsalis and I started. Or be of some help during Hurricane Katrina. Those are all things that I was able to do as a result of being in the public eye, so I think it’s a tie between that and creative freedom.  

EDGE: From whom did you learn the most during your music career? 

HC: Probably Ellis Marsalis. He was my teacher back in high school. I probably spent the most hours with him, if you were to count up all the hours I’ve ever spent with everybody, because I was with him every day for four years. Ellis taught me things that I still use to this day, and if anyone were to be credited for having the biggest influence on my playing, it would be Ellis.

EDGE: Given the state of Jazz in the 80’s, how secure were you in the belief that you’d have a real shot at carving out a lucrative career for yourself? 

HC: Well, it’s like when you’re a kid and you look at yourself in the mirror, and you look at your family. If you’re around people that kind of eat the same food, and talk like you, and look like you…that’s your norm. Jazz music was my norm. It’s who I was. I never thought about it as being a risk. It’s just who I was. So when I moved to New York, I didn’t even think about playing any other kind of music, because that’s the music that I knew. When you believe in yourself—and you have a little bit of confidence and a drive to be known in this industry—the last thing you’re thinking about is Oh my gosh, I hope I’m making the right decision. All I wanted to do was play music, and at that time all I was doing was playing piano and singing, and I was playing jazz music, and I loved it. It was just something that I had to do. I felt compelled to do it because I loved it so much. 

EDGE: At 25 years old, you released one of the most enduring holiday albums ever, When My Heart Finds Christmas. Did you have any idea that this album would stand the test of time and become an all-time classic?

HC: It’s just such a humbling feeling to know that that record has been a part of so many people’s lives around the holidays. I never really think about whether things are going to endure or not. All I can do is try to make the best record, or best TV show that I can. You never know how people are going to respond to it, and the fact that it’s stuck around for so long is just a thrill. I worked just as hard on that album as I did on all of them. I’m thankful I did it, and I always enjoy playing those songs around Christmas time. 

EDGE: You seem equally comfortable on stage or in the studio. Do you consider yourself more of a recording artist who plays live shows, or a live performer who occasionally records? 

HC: I think it’s too hard to define. I mean, I’m a live performer for sure. But I also relish the time I have in the studio. It’s really hard to pull those two things apart. I’m probably equal parts live performer, and equal parts recording artist.

EDGE: You’re obviously comfortable in front of the camera. Has that always been the case?

HC: I’ve always loved being in front of the camera. I started doing public appearances at a really young age—probably six or seven years old—and started making records at nine years old, and being on TV and stuff since I was a kid. So the idea of that was always really familiar to me. I’m not a snow skier. I’ve gone a dozen times or so, but I’m terrible, and when I get off the lift I’m always nervous, because I don’t have the skillset to guarantee myself that I’m gonna be able to make it down safely. And you see these little kids out there doing it with no problem. It’s the same kind of thing. Some people say, “Well, how do you go up in front of all those people and perform on Broadway?” It’s just what I do. I’ve done it for so long. I just feel very comfortable being on stage and in front of the camera.

EDGE: Do you have a favorite genre in terms of acting? 

HC: I like whatever I’m doing at the time. When I’m doing Broadway, I love that because I’m very, very focused. When I’m doing Will & Grace or another sitcom, it’s the same type of thing. All I think about is the moment. The fun thing about doing Harry is that, although I get to do different things under the same roof, it’s still its own skillset—hosting a daily syndicated television show—so I’m focused on that, and all of the things that I have to do to try to make that show as good as I can. Like, right now I’m in “TV Show” mode, and I’m just loving every second of it. Whatever I’m doing at the time, I think, is what I enjoy the most. 

EDGE: To what do you attribute your success beyond your music career?

HC: I think it starts with believing in yourself, and believing that what you have to offer is something that other people might like. And working really, really hard at it. I have a work ethic second to none, and you can say what you want about my talent or lack thereof, but you’re not gonna find many people who work harder than I do. 

EDGE: Why is that?

HC: I genuinely appreciate the opportunity to do it. One of the things I get asked a lot is, “How are you doing with the grind of daytime?” I can’t get over that. It’s not a grind to me! Every day I wake up, and I’m thankful to be there. Do I have days where I’m tired or sick? Of course. But I’m fortunate to be here, and I’m going to give these people one hundred percent of myself every single time. I think those things probably have something to do with the success I’ve been able to achieve. 

HC Productions/NBC Universal Television

EDGE: What intrigued you about having your own talk show?

HC: Well, I love to perform and I love to be with people. I’ve been inspired by amazing women my entire life, I continue to be, and I wanted to do a show that I thought might have its own lane—a daytime show with music that celebrated everyday people and wasn’t about gossip or politics. It was about acknowledging incredible people for what they’ve done, having the occasional celebrity come on and share their story, and just doing a show that made people feel good. You never know if the thing’s gonna work…or if anybody’ll even buy it. But they bought it, and we were lucky enough to get five Emmy nominations the first season out. These shows rarely get picked up, and the fact that we got picked up for Season Two with a continually growing audience sends a very clear message to me that maybe our hunch was right. Maybe people want to watch a show that is wholesome, that you can watch with your whole family, but which is trying to be a show on a high artistic level, too. Those are all the reasons that made me want to do it. 

EDGE: What went into shaping the vibe and format? 

HC: Well, the last thing I wanted to do is plug myself into an existing formula. You see a lot of the same type of daytime shows on TV. Some of them are great. The host comes out, there’s a monologue, there’s a celebrity guest, there’s another celebrity guest, there’s another celebrity guest, and people do that really well. I didn’t want to do that because I’m not a “talk show host.” I wanted to do more of an experience that everybody kind of celebrates together. So I built everything based on my skillset, which is music, entertainment, and things I love to do.  

EDGE: For example? 

HC: I like to go in my audience all the time..we play live music on daytime television—we’re the only people who do that. I’m the only host that writes the music for the band. I did things that I knew how to do and, again, you never know if it’s gonna work. But I think people know that I’m sincere. Regardless of your feelings toward me, or what I have to offer, I think one thing that’s undeniable is that I absolutely love doing it, and I’m honored to do it, and every day when people come in I just feel blessed to be able to perform for them. Hopefully those things come across, and show people that they have a choice when they watch daytime. 

EDGE: What’s been your favorite part of doing Harry? 

HC: Meeting the women I call “Leading Ladies.” That was the first idea I had for the show. Fine, amazing women that I can talk to and that can inspire other people. Just yesterday, we filmed the captain of the ferry in New York that was one of the first responders when Miracle on the Hudson took place. I think she’s the only female ferry captain. Certainly she was the first one, and she just went into autodrive and saved dozens of people. This woman is amazing, and I said, “What do you have to tell young women out there?” She says, “Believe in yourself.” These are messages that we can’t hear enough—especially young women who I think struggle with self-esteem. Young boys do, too. But it’s tough out there for young girls. I have three daughters, and I’m aware of that, so I love having strong women. That’s my favorite part of the show. 

You’ve seen Hank Azaria’s face a hundred times and heard his voice a thousand more. Or maybe ten thousand more. Fans of The Simpsons know him as the man behind the voices of ill-tempered bartender Moe Syzslak, gluttonous police chief Chauncey Wiggum, sad-sack Comic Book Guy, hillbilly Cletus Spuckler and America’s favorite convenience store clerk, Apu (“Thank you come again”) Nahasapeemapetilon. Azaria’s over-the-top film roles include fork-flinging superhero The Blue Raja (Mystery Men), 1950s sports legend Patches O’Houlihan (Dodge Ball), megalo-maniacal pharaoh Kahmunrah (Night at the Museum: Battle of the Smithsonian) and inept houseboy Agador Spartacus (The Birdcage). To this long list of indelible characters add Jim Brockmire, the title character in IFC’s Brockmire, a new comedy co-starring Amanda Peet. The show follows the travails of a legendary announcer banished to the bush leagues after a profanity-filled on-air meltdown. Gerry Strauss talked to Azaria about what it takes to slip into the shoes of one unique character after another…and what makes his newest role the culmination of a long, personal journey.      

Courtesy of IFC

EDGE: You have a particular talent for creating scene-stealing characters. How does that differ from being an actor who inhabits a character for months or years? 

HA: It’s fun. It’s not boring. You do get to switch things up. Even if it’s as simple as going back and forth from comedy to drama and, let alone going from a guy who’s kind of unhinged, to somebody who’s rather sweet, then to somebody with a Latin accent, then to a guy in law enforcement. Whatever it is, it’s fun.  

EDGE: Is it a way to learn about the world?

HA: It is. As I take on a different role, I tend to learn about what that person would really be like. It’s a great way to discover how different people live and think. That’s the easy part for me. I became an actor because as a teenager, I was very insecure and did not want to be myself. I wanted to be anybody but myself. I discovered that, in order to do the craft of acting well, you have to reveal yourself to an extent. Still, I like that chameleon aspect of what I do. Vocally, that’s easy for me. A lot of times, I feel like if I find the way a character sounds, I also instinctively know how he thinks and feels. I don’t know why that is. 

EDGE: Jim Brockmire is an old-school, throwback sports announcer. Do you tend to gravitate towards characters that harken back to the past?

HA: Oh, for sure. That’s like a major theme of Brockmire. Old-school dude in a modern world. I grew up watching and listening to a lot of those voices. I’m 52, so my memories go back to about 1969, 1970, and to an extent those guys were still around. A lot of them had very distinct voices. Any distinct voice, any vocal anything, really made a huge impression on me. And still does. I always was asking myself, “Why are they talking like that?” I was always noticing the way folks sounded, and asking why they sound like that. Those baseball announcers especially. I’d wonder, Why is this the voice that delivers sports and commentary and information? Then I started wondering if these guys were like this in their private lives, if they still sound like this when they’re having sex, when they’re eating dinner, when they’re wasted. That was the comic premise of Brockmire that we started with—as well as the fact that these guys can basically say whatever they want on the air, as long as they get the count right. Then it kind of grew into what you just said, which is how does an old-school guy handle the modern world? That became an even more important aspect of the show. 

EDGE: When did you begin working on the Jim Brockmire character?

HA: Like I said, it was a voice I was particularly obsessed with as a teenager. By the time I was in my 20s and working professionally as an actor, it was at least in the back of my mind, like This voice belongs somewhere comedically—it should be something. It was a character I did for my friends at poker night all through my life, just announcing whatever was going on in some kind of foolish way. About 20 years ago, in my early 30s, there was a movie script I was working on that never got off the ground. Not about a baseball announcer, but I think it was about a telemarketer who talked with this kind of announcer voice. Then I did it as a Funny or Die short about eight years ago, with the idea that, maybe if people liked it, we could develop it into a TV show or movie. That’s always the plan, and it never happens. But it actually did with this one. 

EDGE: I suspect that people might be surprised to discover that Brockmire is a lot more than a comedy about a guy with a hilarious way of speaking. It’s a show with tons of heart, as well as a dark undertone. How do you strike that kind of balance?

HA: It’s a few things. And thank you for saying that. I agree. First, I have to acknowledge Joel Church-Cooper, who is our show runner and wrote most of the episodes himself. Joel’s got the ability to not only understand a guy like Jim Brockmire on the surface, but also to commit to this fish out-of-water, old-school alcoholic has-been in a modern world. He really grasps those things and writes them really funny and really poignantly. That’s what I think you’re responding to: He’s a real guy. It’s kind of my shtick. I like to find strange, vocal personages that just sound funny to me—and the game I like to play is Now let’s fill that person in and make him real.

EDGE: How do the characters you play on The Simpsons come to life?  How does the collaboration between voice actors and animators play out?

HA: In animation, the voices are recorded first—whether it’s The Simpsons or whatever last Pixar thing that you saw—you record it like a radio play. They edit together a soundtrack that they think works, and then they do an animatic, which is a pretty cool black-and-white sketchy version of the show or the movie. That gives them a feel for how it’s playing. What we usually do next is write based on that animatic, then do some re-recording based on that animatic, and finally send it off and start the actual process of animating. Once that color animation comes back, you get another round of re-writes as the thing starts really coming together. 

EDGE: Is it difficult to re-write animated characters?

HA: It’s pretty easy because you don’t need to go and shoot again in locations, you just need to change lip flaps of characters mouths moving, or add a scene, or whatever it is. During the first 10 or 15 years of The Simpsons, the voice cast was always all together recording. We got to know each other intimately, each other’s timing and whatever. The last bunch of years have changed. I live in New York now, so I usually record on my own. I feel like I work better recording on my own because they’re only focused on me while I’m recording. I can give a lot more choices. And having spent 15 years learning everyone’s timing, we all knew what the other one is going to do before they do it. 

EDGE: I know you’ve said that most of your voices and characters are derived from actual people. What’s it like when you run into those people after the fact?

HA: There have been times when I’ve worked with somebody who I did an impression of, and they sort of get wind that you do an impression of them, and they say, “Let’s see it! Let’s hear it.” That’s a highly embarrassing, awkward moment in your life. But no one’s ever come to me like, “Hey, you’re doing my voice there, aren’t you?” I once did a character voice that was based on a guy I grew up with, very distinctly. He came up to me and mentioned that he liked the character, but didn’t realize that it was based on him. That made me laugh. There’s another character, Snake, on The Simpsons that’s based on a guy I went to college with. I said that publicly, and he got a big kick out of that fact. I spoke to that guy recently, and he sounds nothing like how I remembered him! I think it was really only when he was wasted that he sounded like Snake. 

Courtesy of IFC

EDGE: Both of your parents were interested in the entertainment industry. Did growing up in that environment set the stage for your own interest in becoming an entertainer?

HA: Yeah, it definitely made an impression on me. The culture of the house was to see what’s going on in TV, music, film, and stage. [My parents] were major enthusiasts of everything, from whatever sitcom was popular to the opera. They really were genuinely all over it. When you’re a kid, you just think that’s what everybody does, but my parents were extreme in their appreciation of entertainment. But back then, kids were pretty much left alone. It’s not like today. You pursued what interested you, and I was majorly interested in entertainment and sports. My parents weren’t all that sports-oriented, but I was very into that. New York’s a great sports town, it’s got everything. I grew up in Queens back when the Jets and the Mets played at Shea Stadium. We lived very close to Shea, so it was like we had a couple of our own teams, not to mention the Knicks. I don’t know if it was particularly a New York thing. Actually, the truth is that it was a TV thing. I was mostly raised by a television set. I watched whatever was on it, whether it was The Brady Bunch, a Mets game—it almost didn’t make any difference to me. It was always going to be the television set.

EDGE: And you were a gifted mimic. 

HA: Yeah, big time. I am a mimic, quite literally a vocal mimic. That came too easily to me. What was difficult about acting was being yourself in front of people, revealing your honest emotions. I didn’t like that at all. I had to actually learn to do that. It didn’t come easily to me. I really needed to go to class for that. It was easier for me to learn improvisational comedy skills than it was to learn to be myself in a dramatic scene. But the better you are at that, the funnier you are, I think.

EDGE: You and Oliver Platt started an acting troupe after graduating from Tufts. Was live theater terrifying for you?

HA: The short answer is Yes. I was profoundly uncomfortable acting, really. When I look back, I’m kind of amazed I was so driven to do it and stayed with it. I loved it so much. I guess I saw that I was good at it on certain levels, so I felt compelled to keep doing it. But it took me a long time to relax. It’s amazing I did as well as I did, given how tight I was well into my 30s and 40s. I really feel like it’s only in the last five or 10 years that I’ve calmed down on camera and in front of people.

EDGE: Brockmire is launching on IFC at a time when the bar for quality television is higher than ever. What do you make of this industry?

HA: As a fan of television, which I am—and somebody who’s lucky enough to work in television—I’m so thrilled to see this second Golden Age of Television, this evolution into incredible creative freedom. Freedom of language. Freedom to curse a blue streak. Freedom to talk about whatever you like. Places like Amazon, Netflix, HBO, Showtime, or via cable, FX. IFC said, “Let’s get creative people in here and let them do what they want to do with the show. Let’s let them try what we think is a really good idea, with really smart, funny people doing it. Let’s leave them alone to do what they want to do.” It’s been thrilling. Especially thrilling for me, who is so frustrated whenever I’ve tried to bring things to network. It gets watered down. It gets compromised. I have incredible admiration for anybody who makes a quality network show, given the corporate and creative structure. 

EDGE: Is it a lot of pressure or a lot of fun having the freedom to do what you want to do?

HA: It’s so much fun. They’ll say, “You know what? These are our suggestions. Take what you like, leave the rest. If it makes sense to you, do it. It’s up to you.” It’s just a tremendously great thing. It’s why awesome television has been getting made throughout the last decade. 

The word “magnetic” is thrown around a lot in show business with little regard for what it actually means. Of the many words that have been used to describe Dennis Haysbert, it is difficult to think of a better one. Indeed, most actors labor their entire lives to achieve what seems to come so naturally to him. Add great passion, talent and commitment—along with a refreshing dose of self-awareness—and the result is a performer who knows how to command both screen and stage. EDGE Editor-at-Large Tracey Smith hoped to discover what makes Haysbert tick, and perhaps got a bit more than she bargained for. However, as their conversation shows, she was in good hands from start to finish.      

EDGE: Let’s start by talking about your portrayal of authority figures. It takes more than a big body and big voice to carry it off. Who were the authority figures you modeled yourself after—who are you channeling as President of the United States in 24 or as the Allstate spokesman?  

Photo courtesy of 20th Century Fox

DH: For 24, I channeled a number of presidents, and a number of individuals that were high in integrity. Some may be controversial, Tracey, but they were my choices and I still stick with them. Colin Powell was one of them; his character is beyond reproach as far as I’m concerned. I think he’s just an amazing man, who I think would’ve made an amazing president. Why didn’t that happen? I don’t know. I can speculate until the cows come home and never really find a real enough or true enough answer for that question. Jimmy Carter, another man of high integrity, was considered weak, but I fail to see what people thought was weak about him. I believe he was a gentle man. I think he was a very fair man. In the world of politics in which we live, it’s very difficult to be a really, really good man. The other is the one that they thought was the “original” first black president [laughs] and that is William Clinton. There is just something about him that is, like, “You know what? I don’t care what color you are or what gender you are, where you’ve traveled, if you are in this country, and if you are a citizen of this country or a citizen of this world—you’re going to be treated right.” That’s what I got from him. 

EDGE: And Allstate?

DH: I think I got that role because I was President David Palmer on 24 and people saw me as being very trustworthy. And that’s a good reason. Because I am. And I understand that the attorneys won’t allow me to say anything that they can’t back up, so I’m pretty secure about what I’m saying to the public.

EDGE: There is a serious nature to the sales pitch in those commercials.

DH: The foundation of the campaign was built on that. I don’t really consider myself a salesman. I consider myself an advocate. And I am presenting the country with choices. And you have your right to choose. You want to follow the Gecko? Or you want to follow Flo? Or you want to follow the professor? You want to follow the camel that’s asking you what day it is [laughs] but you really don’t know what it is he’s selling? Yes, you can be entertained and be entertained…but you can also be entertained and told the truth. And that’s what I, and the company, have chosen to do.  There is a reason why the other insurers are not doing what we do. It’s because we’re already doing it. So they have to find other ways.  

EDGE: Which entertainers were your influences as a young man? 

DH: I’ve been an athlete all of my life and I have some phenomenal athletes in my family; my brothers were incredible.  So I had a lot of athletes on my wall. But I also loved movies at a very young age, and there were a lot of artists and actors that I really enjoyed. There were three of them in particular that I actually had on my wall: Brando, Olivier and my mentor now, Sidney Poitier. There were a whole lot of actors that I liked, including Montgomery Clift, Roscoe Lee Brown, Ivan Dixon and James Earl Jones, but those first three stood out to me. There were women that I really enjoyed, too, like Katharine Hepburn and Audrey Hepburn. And Cicely Tyson, Diahann Carroll. These people were blazing trails, and were coming around at a time when things were seemingly opening up for black people and for people of color in general. When Bill Cosby did I Spy, I said “What?!I Spy? Really?!” When Sidney Poitier did Brother John, a little known movie that people seldom talked about, it blew my mind that they were making movies like this. I knew what was possible. When the role of Jonas Blane came up? Oh man, I was ready to step in! Oh yes…this is what I was built for.

EDGE: How did it feel when you began pursuing this passion?

DH: When I first started to act? Oh, it felt like coming in out of the cold and being wrapped in a heated blanket. It was immediately comfortable. I would get so deep into my characters I’d get stuck in them. I realized that I had to come off of that, I had to back up. One of my instructors told me, “When you’re on stage, you are that character. You are everything you want that character to be. But five feet after you come off that stage, you have to become Dennis again.” So there was a switch I had to develop, and I just had to turn it on and off, activate and deactivate.

EDGE: What are some of the other key moments in your development as an actor? 

DH: I went to the American Academy of Dramatic Arts. I wanted to be classically trained, I wanted people to take me seriously as an actor. So I guess that was one moment, attending the Academy. I guess the next moment was when I was working with John Lynne, who I thought was absolutely amazing. He is no longer with us, but his teaching is still with me…you’re making me go back to a time…it’s rather emotional for me…he was an amazing instructor and an incredibly good man.  

EDGE: You worked with Ed Asner on the show Lou Grant.

DH: Ed was the consummate professional. I worked early in my career with Tom Berenger. He was at the height of his career in Major League. Another good person was Gene Hackman. And Clint Eastwood, who is a very incredible source of performance energy for me.  

Photo courtesy of Upper Case Editorial

EDGE: Was there a “eureka moment” early on, when you thought Hey, I can do this?

DH: I guess when I got my first job, when I got hired for the first time. Coming from where I come from, I didn’t have any connections, I didn’t know anybody when I got into the business. I was very grateful. [laughs] I don’t think I’ve ever sat down and just said, “Man, Dennis you’re terrific.” I don’t think I have ever said that. As soon as you start thinking “you’re all that” I think you lose it. My M.O. is I perform roles the way the people actually define them in their life. When a doctor comes up to me and says, “You know what? That’s what we do,” that’s the best compliment I can get. There were some baseball players that came up to me and said, “Man! You played Cerrano like—oh, man—we love Cerrano!” If a baseball player tells me that then I must’ve done something right. When I have politicians or the President greet me and say, “I see we have the first black president here in the room,” I say, “Thank you.” When I have Ethel Kennedy tell me that I was partially responsible for Barack Obama becoming president, that humbles me, that kind of brings me to my knees a little bit. What? Really? When I play Command Sergeant Major Jonas Blane and then go to Iraq and Afghanistan to visit the troops, and they tell me, “This is the show we watch here”…I mean, you’re in a war zone and you’re doing a show about black ops and you have guys that perform those black ops say you’re doing it right— that’s a compliment for me! You’ve got to remain grounded, because what you’re doing is taking on personalities, you’re taking on characters, and you can’t have an ego about that. You can’t be outside your body looking back saying, “Boy, I didn’t do that right,” because then you’ll miss the next moment, and any actor will tell you that you have to be in the moment. 

Photo courtesy of Upper Case Editorial

EDGE: On 24, did they tell you the character arc would include being president?

DH: No. That may have been their plan but it’s not something that they had divulged to me. All I was at the time was Senator David Palmer running for president in the primary.    

EDGE: Did that role get you more interested or more involved in real-life politics?

DH: I aspired to…but then I got Allstate and I was working for a Fortune 500 company. I could no longer voice my opinion publicly about politics.  I could donate my money, go to functions, shake hands and things like that, but I really couldn’t talk about politics. So I don’t.

EDGE: Would you ever consider running for office? Clint Eastwood, Ronald Regan, Sonny Bono…Dennis Haysbert?  

DH: Maybe for a quick second. [laughs] I have a number of friends in politics in Sacramento who actually have said to me, “If you keep your nose clean, you portray a positive role—we could put you in the Senate” What? You could do what? Hmmm. I don’t think so!

EDGE: You’ve done one of the toughest things to do in film—convincingly portray a baseball player—in more than one movie. Can you handle a bat as well as it seems?

DH: Well, in all modesty, yes. All the home runs that I hit in the movie I actually hit out, but they just didn’t go as far as they shot them out. That is probably the most fun I’ve had on screen, playing baseball and getting paid for it.   

EDGE: Which sports did you play in high school?

DH: I played football and ran track. I also played a little bit of basketball, but that was during our theater season, so I didn’t play a lot and I was marginally good at that. But I always loved basketball, and I loved track, I loved football, and I loved to fence, especially stage fencing. 

EDGE: Your character in Far from Heaven was incredibly complex. Was that an easy role to play for you—did you have personal stuff to draw on—or did you have to dig as deep as it looked?

DH: I will say this: love is love and we really can’t choose who we love. We think we can, but you can’t pinpoint one person, and go out and say, “You know what, I’m going to love them and they’re going to love me back,” and go out and do that. I wish it were that simple. Sometimes your chemistry is such that you’re going to attract a certain person, and it has a lot to do with where you are energetically at the time, how clear you are, because sometimes you draw the wrong people towards you, and it’s incredibly hard to release them—even when you know they’re not good for you. Do you know what I mean?That’s something that hits everyone.  

EDGE: What kind of response did you get to that performance?

DH: I can’t tell you how many women in their sixties came up to me with tears in their eyes and whispered to me, “That was my life”…and how my jaw dropped to the floor.

EDGE: What will we be seeing you in during 2014?

DH: I have Sin City: A Dame to Kill For, in which I reprise the role of Manute, who was played by the late Michael Clarke Duncan. I have a couple of independents coming out—The Life of a King, which is a story about an ex-con who comes out of prison and teaches chess to inner city kids, and Welcome to the Jungle, which premiered at the 2013 Newport Beach Film Festival. Welcome to the Jungle is chock full of really brilliant comedians. It was one of the few times I felt out of place in a movie, because I wasn’t a comedian. But they gave me such funny lines to say. It is also the first comedic appearance by Jean Claude Van Damme, who is actually really funny. It was a fun movie to do. This March, I have a part in Mr. Peabody and Sherman, a DreamWorks Animation comedy, which is a spinoff off of Rocky and Bullwinkle. And Think Like a Man, Too, which came out at the end of 2013. 

Editor’s Note: Read more from the EDGE interview with Dennis Haysbert at edgemagonline.com!

Two decades before Al Jarreau gained international fame with his joyous theme from the hit TV series Moonlighting, he was moonlighting as a singer with the George Duke Trio in San Francisco. Jarreau was busy putting his Master’s degree to work as a vocational rehabilitation counselor when he found his stride on stage…or vocal thumbprint, as he likes to call it. Needless to say, he’s never looked back. Editor at Large Tracey Smith asked the six-time Grammy winner to look back—at his musical family, his early influences, and the unexpected twists and turns in a professional career that is now in its sixth decade.

EDGE: What kind of impact did Moonlighting have for you?

AJ: People heard me who had never heard me before. People who were unlikely to go to Tower Records and search through the jazz bin and find this singer named Al Jarreau—who was singing Chick Corea and Dave Brubeck, who was doing this really eclectic form of music that had a mixture of styles. I mention Tower Records because that’s the time period covered by Moonlighting, when we had brick and mortar stores to go into.

Picturemaker Productions/ABC Circle Films

EDGE: Moonlighting had an international audience.

AJ: That’s an important point. People in Jakarta, Indonesia, and Oslo, Norway found out about Al Jarreau by hearing [singing] Some walk by night, some walk by day. Moonlighting strangers, who just met…on the way. It was a very wonderful introduction to people, who went out and found my music. And [laughs] guess what? Listening to me they learned about Dave Brubeck and Chick Corea and found that music, and got their lives enriched some more.

EDGE: How did you get that job?

AJ: The writer called me and he mentioned he was doing music for a pilot show that would star Cybill Shepherd and—I could hear papers rattling…he was looking for Bruce Willis’s name and he finds it—Bruce Willis, this young actor. Who knew!

EDGE: What did you want to be when you grew up?

AJ: My Dad was a preacher, a Seventh Day Adventist Minister—four years of school, ordained ministry, not somebody who read the bible a few times and decided to open a church on 3rd and Vine. So I wanted to be a preacher until I was 13 or 14 years old [laughs]. But then I figured out that probably was not for me. My older brothers had brought jazz and stuff into the house. They sang the Mills Brothers, Count Basie, Sarah Vaughan, Billy Eckstine—they called themselves The Counts of Rhythm. I was knee high to them looking up in total wonderment. That was the heaven I wanted to go to, where they do this kind of music. Impactful! Greatly impactful.

EDGE: When did you start singing?

AJ: When I was four years old. It was a wonderful thing to stand there and open your mouth and something comes out that makes people smile. I got it. Whatever I did, my folks were big on education, so I knew that I would stay in school, graduate from high school and go on to college somewhere. I didn’t know what my vocation would be, but I knew that more education was in my future, and that I would be doing music all the way through. And that’s exactly what happened. All through high school, I sang in the a capella choir, solos that I rehearsed for and looked forward to, doing the sacred music of Bach, the show music of Broadway, singing doo-wop music on the street corner and in the bathroom with three other guys [laughs], because there was good echoing off the tile. I rehearsed with quartets that only sang a couple of nights a year at Lincoln High School—we got together to laugh and smile and make this music we could make with these four people.

Photo by Helmut Riedl

EDGE: Did your father sing?

AJ: My dad sang his butt off! He sang in a quartet that traveled all the states of the Union doing church music. They were all students at Oakwood College and becoming ministers within the faith. My dad was a brilliant singer, an Irish tenor type of voice. My mother was a pianist and she could sing, too. But her main thing was to play the piano, and she played for the choir and with the soloists that sang during most of the years of my upbringing in church.

EDGE: When did you know you shared that gift for music?

AJ: At five or six I knew. I knew I had it—that early! The dream began then to do music in whatever situation I could.

EDGE: How did you establish your voice and perfect your craft?

AJ: Simply by doing it. When you do it over and over, you find yourself. We all begin trying to sound like somebody that we admire and that’s good, but if you do it long enough, you’ll find your own voice. There’s a thumbprint inside you, inside your mind, inside your throat, that is only you, that nobody else has. If you have time to research and look for it, you find your own thumbprint. Don’t nobody sound like Ray Charles or Joe Cocker or Celine Dion.

EDGE: Who did you emulate at first?

AJ: When I started out, I wanted to sound like Johnny Mathis…and Jon Hendricks. Pound for pound, Hendricks is one of the best jazz singers that ever walked the face of the earth.  He’s 95  and still doing it. Go and find Lambert, Hendricks & Ross—I wanted to sing like those guys. Most singers who sing jazz don’t sing complex stuff like Take Five, or scat like I do. But I started out wanting to be like Jon Hendricks.

EDGE: When did you start writing your own music?

AJ: I really started writing my own music in about 1969 or ’70, about five years before I recorded We Got By, my first album. It was rather frightening for me. When you listen to Bob Dylan, when you listen to Joni Mitchell, when you listen to Janis Ian—those singer/songwriters who were writing at such a high level, it’s intimidating. So, it took me a while to find my own voice as a writer. I’m still struggling as a lyricist, writing in that way. Musically, it comes out a little more easily for me. But I don’t think I’m a great music writer—I mean, the melody and the chord changes for the melody I do okay. And when I collaborate, that really lifts it to a different level musically.  But in terms of the message and the lyrics and all of that…if you read poetry, you see how some people put together words in a way that just [laughs] scares the crap out of you if you’re going to start messing with words!

EDGE: Talk about your history with George Duke. Last year you recorded a tribute album to him, My Old Friend.

Concord Records

AJ: [laughs] George and I go back to when we were puppies. I was 24 or 25 and George was 19.  There’s a record called Al Jarreau and the George Duke Trio Live at the Half Note 1965. George was not even old enough to be in the Half Note Club! I was doing jazz standards, American Songbook standards and some Broadway music, but George was swinging like Ahmad Jamal and Wynton Kelly—at age 19. I walked in on a Sunday afternoon, which was a “Matinee Sunday,” and stood in line with five horn players and a guitar player, waiting to get up and play with this wonderful trio that was led by George. That started a three-year run with George and me at the Half Note, in San Francisco. His mother would come to the club and shake her finger at the owner, Warren, and tell him to get her son home immediately when he was done performing, because he had to play for church the following Sunday morning. We did a lot of great George Duke music on My Old Friend, with Stanley Clarke, Marcus Miller, Boney James, Jeffrey Osbourne, Dianne Reeves and a bunch of people who came and played on this record. It’s been out there since last August, and its doing great…we’re on the charts since that time and we’ve got numbers, and I’m tickled to death to be doing this summer’s tour with that record under my arms, presenting it basically to the rest of the world. He was one of the most important music people in this sector of the universe during the last one hundred years.

When two people tie the knot, they never know for sure what’s over the horizon. Unfortunately, the outcome of many unions is not always “happily ever after.” As Vikki Ziegler knows all too well, sometimes love turns to hate. Her Livingston, NJ practice (Ziegler & Zemsky) focuses on divorce and mediation—a process designed to save time, money and anguish, and help couples to split and quickly move on. Ziegler’s reputation for finding the middle ground has made her a familiar face to countless millions of television viewers. She is a frequent contributor to network and cable news shows, has authored books and magazine articles about her craft, and founded the web site divorcedating.com. This summer, Ziegler begins work on a reality series for Bravo, which promises to boost her public profile even higher. As EDGE editor Mark Stewart discovered, there’s more to being a divorce mediator than divvying-up assets. Ziegler wears many hats. And sometimes she must change them in the blink of an eye.

EDGE: There are three ways to go in a divorce, is that correct?

Vikki Ziegler: Yes. If you go to court, a judge decides the outcome.

In arbitration, a retired judge or practicing attorney is hired, and lawyers control the discussion. A mediator assists in explaining the law and guiding couples to a resolution.

EDGE: Is part of what you do opening their eyes to how a judge is likely to rule?

VZ: That’s a crucial part. My goal is to show why it’s good to compromise on certain issues. It’s a tough-love process that requires patience and a skillful articulation of the law.

EDGE: If mediation is successful, it’s a win-win financially.

VZ: It is. You only pay the mediator, and can save the exorbitant fees associated with hiring two attorneys. Litigation is the most expensive and least effective method to handle a divorce, in my opinion. You have no control over the outcome, spend a great deal of money during the process, and are generally angry over the results.

EDGE: How does a couple pick a mediator?

VZ: Background. Experience. Referrals. Cost. Sometimes there is a preference for a man or woman. Most couples choose a family law mediator to help them through their divorce. They’re the most seasoned and know the law with specificity. A good mediator advocates for both sides, but also molds the resolution in a compromised fashion. I think of it as taking ingredients from both parties and creating a soup that they both enjoy—even if one is a health-nut and the other one a pizza-lover. I have a sense of how cases should settle, based on how a judge might rule, and on my knowledge of case law. I apply the facts surrounding a mediation and help drill down on the key issues in order to resolve them quickly and reasonably.

EDGE: What is the typical number of meetings it takes to resolve a divorce mediation?

VZ: I have settled cases in one session when a couple wants to get divorced and be open-minded. But I’d say two to five, depending on the complexity of the case. I have a large mediation now and we are on our eighth meeting. However, the parties are saving hundreds of thousands of dollars by mediating versus litigating.

EDGE: Is a good mediation one where both sides give in?

VZ: Yes. I always say a good deal is when both parties are unhappy. Nobody loses. Nobody wins. They have both sculpted a deal that is fair—one they can live with and live by.

EDGE: If the people can’t stand each other, mediation still works if they can each talk to the mediator. Is this a skill that you feel defines you in your field?

VZ: I think so. I act as the neutral third party, helping two people come closer to seeing eye-to-eye on the division of their assets. Sometimes the parties only respond to me, and not each other, which is fine. It keeps the acrimony low.

EDGE: Describe a couple that simply does not belong in mediation.

VZ: One that wants to fight. One that wants to argue about non-issues and small things. One that wants to inflict emotional and financial pain. In mediation, both parties must be ready to listen, be open-minded, let go of anger and look to the future. If they don’t have some of those qualities walking through my door, they’ll be battling it out in divorce court for a long time.

EDGE: When you sit down with a couple, obviously you want to make a quick evaluation of them to determine your strategy. How good are you at “reading the room” that first time, and what are some of the things you look for that tell you it’s going to be a hard mediation or an easy one?

VZ: At first glance, when I meet a couple, I can tell if they want to fight or want to move on. After practicing for 14-plus years, I am pretty good at determining whether or not I can help the parties, usually within a few minutes. I listen to the way they speak and observe whether they are looking at each other or not. I take note of who is screaming and yelling, how reasonable their positions are, how they sit in their chairs, and whether they are making eye contact with me.

EDGE: How important is it in that first meeting to help people separate their anger or hurt or confusion over a failed marriage from the process of mediation? You almost have to play therapist in that respect, right?

VZ: I do wear two separate hats. The first is to explain that the courts don’t care about what went wrong in their marriage; it’s about dividing assets. I ask people to do their best to shelve their emotions during the process and to look at the case as if it were a business deal. Of course, that’s very difficult when love turns to hate. I have to drive home the idea that holding on to ill feelings will not help promote settlement or assist them in moving on to the next chapter in their lives.

EDGE: Mediators can give legal information but not legal advice. So if you see someone being completely toxic or lying about money and assets, how do you handle that?

VZ: I usually caucus—separate the parties and counsel, if they have representation present—and explain to the bullying client that he or she will not win in my office by behaving in a forceful manner. If a litigant lies, well, mediation cannot work. It must be an open and honest process; all the cards must be on the table. Mediation is supposed to be an environment where both parties are on a level playing field and have the mindset to resolve their entire case globally. The mediator takes the litigants’ words at face value. There is no oath taken—it is an informal process where both parties must be up-front about all of their income and assets for the mediation to be successful.

EDGE: You’ve been making television appearances for seven years now, on both news and entertainment shows. Is the Bravo series the first one that’s come to you?

VZ: No. I’ve mulled over other offers in the past, but they were not the right fit. This opportunity is a perfect match for me, the couples and the viewers. I’d shied away with my personal life being on the air, but it is part of the storytelling. I understand there is a recipe for success in TV—viewers need to understand what makes you tick, what makes you love what you do, what makes you successful at what you do—and that means granting access. In this series, it will be 10 percent personal life and 90 percent my professional life. As much as possible, the focus will be on the couples.

EDGE: Even so, there is always that aspect of being at the mercy of the editing room.

VZ: That is always a challenge. I always have to protect my integrity and my reputation. But working with professionals makes my life much easier.

EDGE: So why stick your neck out?

VZ: This series will educate a huge, mass audience on how to get divorced in an intelligent and less-emotional way. I love television. I enjoy being on the air, and I think it comes naturally to me. And helping people is who I am and what I’m all about. It’s the perfect marriage for me. No pun intended.

Editor’s Note: Vikki Ziegler Payne is a founding partner at the Livingston firm of Ziegler & Zemsky LLC. After graduating from the University of Rhode Island and the Quinnipiac College School of Law, she returned to her home state of New Jersey to clerk for judge Michael Diamond in the Family Division of the Superior Court in Passaic County. While under his tutelage, Ziegler began honing her skills as a mediator. To date, she has settled 99 percent of her cases. Ziegler authored Your Pre-Marital Survival Guide and The Pre-Marital Planner. Her official web site is vikkiziegler.com.

New Jersey has been good to Terence Winter. The Garden State furnished him with the inspiration and settings for two of the most iconic series in television history. Winter was a writer and executive producer for The Sopranos, and the creator of Boardwalk Empire. The Brooklyn-born ex-lawyer sat down with EDGE Editor at Large Tracey Smith to talk about the two shows and their protagonists, reveal a nugget or two about the upcoming Boardwalk Empire season, and his upcoming film, The Wolf of Wall Street. What’s the key to writing a great series about crooks? Honesty…what else?

EDGE: Explain how you were able to transition so easily from The Sopranos to Boardwalk Empire?

TW: It might have looked easy but it wasn’t. There was a lot of research involved for Boardwalk that I didn’t need to do on The Sopranos. For example, on The Sopranos, because it was contemporary, I didn’t need to look up pop culture references, I knew the way people spoke, acted, and dressed. For the 1920s, it’s a whole different ball game. I needed to learn about World War I, I needed to learn about the Temperance Movement, I needed to learn about the year women got the right to vote—I needed to put myself in the mindset of characters who were born in the 19th century. So colloquialisms, what books did they read, what movies were out then required months and months of research before I was even able to begin to write the pilot. So even though they are a similar genre, and the characters cover some of the same territory psychologically, it’s almost a hundred years earlier, so the prep work was massive.

EDGE: One of the first things Tony said on The Sopranos was that he felt like he was coming in on the end of something. Steve Buscemi’s character in Boardwalk Empire, Nucky Thompson, is right there at the start of something.

TW: Right. Prohibition was the single event that made organized crime possible. That, more than anything else, was the impetus for criminals to start working together to make money. The interstate trafficking of alcohol made millionaires of criminals overnight, and enabled them to then infiltrate other businesses, and ultimately become organized throughout the country.

EDGE: How do Nucky and Tony compare as protagonists?

TW: In terms of their psychology, they both at their heart are depressed people, sort of searching for something that will make them happy. They are both very smart, both natural leaders, and both are ruthless. Tony’s fatal flaw is that he has a conscience. If he were more of a true sociopath, he wouldn’t pass out, wouldn’t have panic attacks, and wouldn’t care. Nucky, I think, is the same way. We’ve explored a little bit of the psychology of Nucky. We learn by the end of the first season that his wife lost a child very early on, and he is still haunted by that, and that he had a difficult relationship with his father. He’s trying to repair a broken childhood and to recreate a happy family life that he can’t quite seem to replicate.

EDGE: How did Steve become your Nucky?

TW: I’ve been a fan of Steve’s since a movie he did in the 90s called In the Soup. The moment I saw him I was just fascinated with this guy. I was lucky enough to get to know him when he directed a few episodes of The Sopranos that I wrote, and we became friends. Then, of course I got to work with him as an actor when he portrayed Tony’s cousin. I’ve seen everything that Steve’s ever done as an actor. I’ve seen him portray every possible color of human emotion, back and forth, every which way. So for me there was never a question of whether or not he could be convincing as Nucky. When we started to cast for the show, Martin Scorsese and I were talking about who is going to play the lead role. Our Nucky is based on a real person, Nucky Johnson. We fictionalized him as Nucky Thompson, so he’s a version of that person. But we realized since nobody really knew what the real Nucky looked like anyway, it didn’t really matter who we cast in terms of whether or not they looked similar. So Marty said, “Well, let’s just pick an actor that we both like. Who are people you want to work with?” I’m pretty sure it was me that said, “What about Steve Buscemi?” He jumped on it and said, “Oh my God, I love him.” About a week later, Marty called me up and said, “I can’t stop thinking about Steve Buscemi.” I told him I couldn’t either, and he said, “Let’s do it.” HBO was on board—their feeling was Wow, what an interesting choice. That was it. We were off to the races.

EDGE: Why didn’t you use Nucky’s real surname?

TW: I wanted the opportunity to take my Nucky into places where the real Nucky might not have gone. For example, I’m pretty certain the real Nucky didn’t kill anybody. I’m pretty certain he didn’t embrace gangsterism the way our Nucky does. Fictionalizing him gave me artistic latitude and allowed me to sleep at night.

EDGE: How difficult is it to develop so many characters simultaneously?

TW: It’s a massive juggling act. There’s a lot of plotting out, there’s a lot of characters on the show, we’ve got action taking place in several different cities—it’s a big, big, chessboard of characters. That’s the work that goes on in the Writer’s Room. It all starts with “What if?” If such-and-such happened, what would the result of that be?What’s the fallout from that? Where do we want to end up? I’ll come into the season and have a pretty good idea of where I want things to end by episode twelve, sort of like a roadmap. We’re gonna drive from New York to California—alright, well, how do we get there? Those are the story beats that bring us to various places, and it takes a lot of sitting around the table and talking and banging your head against the wall, and plotting, and figuring it out. Eventually, it all works, but it’s a big, big, juggling act.

EDGE: And now you have two new characters to blend in.

TW: Yes. Jeffrey Wright plays a character this season called Valentin Narcisse. He is a Doctor of Divinity who also happens to be the most powerful gangster in Harlem. He crosses paths with Nucky and Chalky in Atlantic City, and that is about as much as I can tell you at this point. If you know anything about Jeffrey and his work, he’s a phenomenal actor, just incredible. We were so thrilled to be able to work with him and have him on the show. The same with Ron Livingston. I’ve been a fan of Ron’s for years and years. He’s so versatile. His work on Band of Brothers, Office Space—I mean, he’s one of these actors that can do comedy, drama, anything in between. He becomes an acquaintance of Jillian Darmody’s, and has a really interesting storyline as well. I’m really excited about both of those guys.

EDGE: A lot of people were shocked when you killed off Jimmy Darmody at the end of season two, just as they were when Tony killed Christopher in The Sopranos. What’s involved in the decision that a major character has to go, especially a protégé?

TW: First and foremost, I try to write the show truthfully. I try to avoid making decisions based on what would be the popular choice, what the audience would want me to do, what the conventions of television would be, which is: You don’t kill your second lead on the show, a beloved character. As season two was playing out, it became really clear to me that if we were going to tell this story honestly, Nucky would kill this guy…and he would kill him immediately. If I were watching this and he at the last minute changed his mind and Jimmy got off with a stern reprimand, I’d say, “This is not true, this is a TV show!”

EDGE: It is a TV show.

TW: But I want it to feel real. I think over 60 or 70 years of TV history, we’ve sort of lulled our audience into a sense of complacency. People say, “Oh, well, they’re obviously not gonna kill this guy, I know it looks like they are, but they won’t, because he’s one of the stars of the show. So, of course, people couldn’t believe when we did it, which made me even more certain I’d made the right decision. The louder the uproar, the louder the outcry, the more I was convinced we did the right thing.

EDGE: You have some interesting projects coming up with Leonardo di Caprio, Martin Scorsese and Bobby Cannavale.

TW: In November, Wolf of Wall Street opens. That’s, as you said, directed by Martin Scorsese and stars Leonardo di Caprio. It’s the true story of a stockbroker named Jordan Belfort who, in the 90’s, made tens of millions of dollars a year as the head of his own stockbrokerage firm. He found a way to sell very inexpensive stocks to rich people. He sort of cracked the code, and he and hundreds of young brokers working for him made a fortune. It was just an incredible roller coaster, a wild ride with incredible amounts of money and drugs. Leo is terrific in it and, of course, we’ve got the master, Martin Scorsese, directing. I’m also working on another series with Martin Scorsese for HBO, this one involving Mick Jagger. It’s set in the world of rock music in 1973 New York City, starring Bobby Cannavale as a cocaine-fueled, A&R executive for a record company. That was the year that punk, disco and hip hop were all invented in and around New York City, a time of great change, of great upheaval in the city. I’m really, really excited about that project. Hopefully, the pilot will be directed in the early part of next year, and we’ll go into series right after that.

EDGE: Cannavale was like a bull in a china shop on Boardwalk Empire.

TW: Oh yeah! There was nobody better to play the Gyp Rossetti role than Bobby. He was great. I think we had one conversation about who that character is and what motivated him, and Bobby got it immediately and ran with it and became Gyp Rosetti. It’s so funny, because nothing could be further from the real guy. Bobby is just the sweetest, funniest, most gentle person in real life, and as an actor he can sort of give you anything. He can turn into Gyp Rosetti on a dime and then go back to being himself again—it was pretty amazing to watch.

EDGE: How many more seasons?

TW: I would love to do seven seasons all together. We’re starting down the homestretch in season four; whether or not we’re fortunate enough to get to do them remains to be seen. It all really is going to depend on what the public’s appetite is for this show, and HBO’s, of course. I would love to do three more years, I think that could take us to the point in Nucky’s story, and the point in history that I’d like to get us to. Hopefully, we’ll get the chance to do that.

EDGE: Are you a nostalgic person?

TW: Very much so. I love history. I am the family’s historian. I’m the one who archived all of the family photos and films, the genealogy and all that stuff. I love the idea of leaving that behind for my children, and grandchildren, and their children. I’d give my left arm just to read about what my great-great-grandfather’s day was like. “What did you do, where did you go, who did you talk to?” That stuff is fascinating to me. EDGE

Editor’s Note: There are no short conversations once Tracey Smith gets you talking. For (a lot) more on Nucky, Chalky, Margaret, Richard and Van Alden—and the inside story on the brilliant “Pine Barrens” episode of The Sopranos—visit edgemagonline.com and read the rest of our Q&A with Terence Winter.

On Thursday nights in America, life simply stops for somewhere between 10 and 20 million television viewers as they settle in for the newest episode of Grey’s Anatomy. Sandra Oh is a major reason why. As Dr. Cristina Yang, she plays opposite the series’ title character, Dr. Meredith Grey, who is portrayed by Ellen Pompeo. They lead an ensemble cast that has become a second family to fans since the show first aired seven seasons ago. As J.M. Stewart discovered in this interview, Oh’s knack for creating signature characters (think Arli$$ and Sideways) comes from an astonishingly honest place. Sandra’s greatest talent, however, may be the ability to keep her head and value her craft in a world where performers are measured by SAG Awards and Emmy Nominations. Of which she has plenty, by the way.

EDGE How was it conveyed to you that Grey’s Anatomy was a different kind of medical drama?

Courtesy of Upper Case Editorial Services

SO: It was never said or expressed formally. The writers and [series creator] Shonda Rhimes found a way of telling this story that just worked. It is basically a classic storyline. There are five acts, each person has a medical issue, and a lot of the time these medical issues reflect what is going on with the characters. I will say, like, at minute 47 you’re going to cry. There’s something about our show that makes people cry. People have a lot of emotional release watching our show. One thing that the show does well in a stylistically different way from any one else’s, is its ability to do comedy and high drama at the same time—within a scene, or within an episode. I think it’s really skillful.

EDGE So when Katherine Heigl’s character, Izzy, lost her husband, we see her baking copious amounts of muffins.

SO: Yes. The way that Izzy deals with her grief is by baking and baking and baking. Inherently, you have a lot of comedy in that. You sustain comedy, comedy, comedy, and then you drop in for the painful truth of it. There has always been that great mix.

EDGE What aspects of the Cristina Yang character are different from you personally?

SO: Cristina Yang is not as emotionally intelligent as I think I am. She is emotionally stunted and anti-social. I don’t consider myself to be either of those things. This is why I wanted to play her so much. Now, as a result of her friendship with Meredith, Cristina has changed. But during the first three years, Cristina was extremely cold emotionally. She had very little compassion or understanding of interpersonal dynamics. I thought that was really interesting to play. My character was so deep in her head. But I felt that she has always been very fair, and compassionate in her own way. Fairly recently, a person said to me, and this was someone I didn’t know, “I really like Cristina. She’s really compassionate.” And, I thought, “Thank you! Thank you for saying that, because it’s totally true! She is compassionate in her way because it comes from a place of fairness.” It’s what I’ve been trying to build for the past 8 years. Cristina is this unfriendly, driven, cutoff person, but has the capacity for compassion.

EDGE Cristina’s tenacity in her work, do you share that?

SO: Tenacity is probably the clearest commonality between Cristina and myself. Also a sense of purpose. It’s not just about overcoming the obstacles of life, but finding a different or clearer perspective of one’s purpose, which in turn makes that tenacity possible. For me, it wasn’t a “choice”, just more of a sense of purpose. Yes, there were obstacles—whether it be the expectations from where my parents wanted me to go, or from people in the industry who said that I was different. The point is not the obstacles themselves, but the sense of purpose that kept me going. That’s the same tenacity that Cristina has—no matter what, she is driven and clear on what it means to be a cardiothoracic surgeon. Nothing is going to stop her from getting there.

EDGE After hiatus is it hard to jump back into Cristina?

SO: Yes. But it’s not so much Cristina. It’s just going back to work. A part of me wants to say No, it’s easy, that it’s muscle-memory. For example, on Arli$$, for Rita, all I had to do was put on those heels—you know, the “costume”—and then the physicality would come back. The comedy would be there because it had so much to do with the physicality.

EDGE You mentioned emotional intelligence. Which Grey’s Anatomy character would you say has the highest EQ?

SO: It’s got to be Bailey or Meredith. Meredith? I’d say Meredith. Cristina would score low on that. Meredith. Meredith one, Bailey two.

EDGE In the movie Sideways, there were four charismatic actors making a very strong movie. Does that make it harder to nail a scene, or easier?

SO: Easier! If you’re working with great actors who also happen to be wonderful people—because that’s not always the same thing—it’s easier. That was definitely one of the highlights of my career. Everyone was good. Every crewmember, every actor, everyone was working at 100 percent. It was a good time, and you can tell on-screen that everyone was having a good time, not just the actors.

EDGE Did you have any idea how well received that movie was going to be?

SO: No, not until I saw Merlot plummet—I really do feel that movie helped to put Pinot on the map!

EDGE Did you know how to ride a motorcycle before you got the part of Stephanie?

SO: I had to learn it and I was terrible at it. I think I almost killed people. At least the scene where I ride off and Thomas Hayden Church is on the back of my bike, I nailed that scene. You only have to nail it once.

EDGE Have you been on a motorcycle since?

SO: No. I would not trust myself on one.

EDGE At that point in your career, most people had known you as Rita, the beleaguered assistant in the HBO series Arli$$. Between the cast and the various sports celebrities on the show, it must have been a crazy set.

SO: My boyfriend at that time would come home and I would tell him who I’d worked with that day and he was like WHAT! I didn’t know anything about sports. All I knew was that some famous sports person was coming into town and there’s a lot more people on set.

EDGE Someone really tall must be a basketball player…someone really big must be a football player….

SO: Seriously, it was like that.

EDGE Did any of them demonstrate any acting ability?

SO: Not that I remember. Professional athletes are athletes, they are not actors. Maybe Laila Ali. I had a scene with her, and she was good.

EDGE Some actors develop characters from the outside-in, and some actors go from the inside-out. Which way do you create your characters?

SO: Probably inside-out. But you have to be able to do both. For example, I have to pretend to be a doctor and that’s all outside-in. That has to do with practicing cutting, and handling the surgical equipment and things like that. My experience as a dancer really helped at outside-in, because you learn through the body how to connect to the character.

EDGE Your first major role was playing Evelyn Lau in the film The Diary of Evelyn Lau. It must have been brutal playing such a tortured soul when you were so young yourself.

SO: I put myself through a lot to play that character. I slept for two months after filming. I had no idea how to control my output. So, I gave everything. It had to do with a lack of experience. Those were the early days. I didn’t know yet that, if one continues giving like I did with Evelyn Lau, one is going to have a breakdown. I have much more skill now. That goes back to the whole inside-out, outsidein thing, being able to build a character more from the outside-in. Evelyn Lau was definitely inside-out. I think for one’s health—both physical and mental—if you have to play a Thai prostitute who is a drug addict, a young actor might think, “Oh, I really have to be a prostitute and do drugs.” No, you don’t. You can just act it. That was the most important creative experience of my life.

EDGE Is fame anything like you thought it was going to be?

SO: No! Can I tell you? Honestly, it was probably one of the most traumatic events in my life. And, ultimately, I think it’s detrimental to being an artist. There’s a lot of struggle. If you want to be famous, awesome! But if you want to continue being an artist, I think fame is a hindrance.

EDGE Why?

SO: Your ability to be authentic is compromised. Fame is detrimental to one’s true artistry because that artistry comes out in the privacy of one’s being with one’s soul— when your soul feels safe in its surrounding to be free, to be authentic. Fame is a heavy, heavy cloak. In my case, I had a tremendous amount of struggle around that feeling of “threat.” There was a period of time when people would be sitting outside my house. How you manage that feeling of threat can go everywhere. It can go into your relationship, go into how you see yourself, and it can go into bad behavior because you start losing control over your privacy in your life. Yet no one’s pointing a gun at you. There’s no one actually “threatening” you. So at the same time you feel like your feelings are unjustified. I’ve thought about this a lot and I have no idea how people who are really famous are able to live and walk around, because they can’t just walk around. I feel that people—especially young people—cannot possibly comprehend the consequences of fame, of not being free. You have to manage your relationship with fame so you can continue to work and still be in the public eye. A lot of people can’t handle it and they leave.

EDGE How has the smartphone generation changed the nature of fame?

SO: Exposure has increased so much. When someone takes a photograph of you when you don’t want them to, it’s denying you “choice.” Because you’ve reached a certain status, you don’t get to have the right to protect your privacy, to not be followed, to have a big fat fight with your spouse in public without it being revealed.

EDGE Fame happened for you organically. You weren’t seeking celebrity, yet that is what you have to deal with now.

SO: It makes me kind of furious that somehow “actor” became synonymous with “celebrity.” I’m a crafts person. I’m an artist. And somehow my total is lessened because of celebrity.

EDGE What’s your take on the roles that are available for women today?

SO: For women, television is our most powerful medium. There are more parts on television for women, and more opportunities for people who are interested in telling a story about a woman. Our show, it’s a woman’s show. Kiera Sedgewick’s show, The Closer, is a woman’s show. Nurse Jackie is centered around Edie Falco. Weeds is centered around Mary Louise–Parker. United States of Tara is centered around Toni Collette. Female cop shows, female buddy shows—there’s more opportunity for women in television. I think that’s a place we need to continue developing. Also, as a woman who is non-white, television has been better for me than film.

EDGE Twenty years ago the ratio of quality male to female roles was around 20:1. How would you explain the up-tick in the number of women’s roles in television?

SO: It must have something to do with the rise of women’s economic power. Classically, women run the finances of the house. If you are in the period of time when you have the most money, let’s say 30 to 50, chances are you’re building your family, so you spend a lot of time at home. You don’t go out. If women are watching television and you want to sell stuff to the household, then you sell it to the woman. That’s what is driving this change. That’s where the industry has more interest and support to do shows that are centered around strong female characters. And the rise of the stronger female character is more prevalent in television than in film. Film is basically all rebooting comic books, and all action movies—it’s about men…plus a young, pretty girl.

EDGE Is there nobility in your industry?

SO: Of course! The business has artists in it; it can’t run without artists. It can’t run without the people who are coming up with the ideas. And there are people who are not on the creative side, who are on the business side, who strive to work with dignity and fairness. Sometimes people slam this town. I’m not saying that all artists are noble—because, lord, they are not—or have integrity. But the best of the best people live in this town. They are creative people who produce great work, who live here and have a strong work ethic. Nobility does exist, but what’s more important is that you make it exist.

EDGE You’ve talked in the past about going into the arts when your parents had hopes for a career in science or medicine. What is your advice on how parents should handle a child saying thanks for the education, but I really want to be in the arts?

SO: Good luck (laughs). I’d say you challenge them on why they want to go. I have a feeling, based on a lot of things going on in this society and pop culture, that the desire to be famous is pushing a lot of kids into either singing or wanting to be in the movies. That’s all fun and good; people come into this business for a bunch of reasons. But it’s so hard to be in the arts. I‘ve always said to people, “You are going to be miserable. Choose whether you’re going to be miserable doing it, or whether you’re going to be more miserable not doing it.” Try to reach out to see what the true motivation is for your child to leave everything behind to pursue the arts. If it’s real, there is nothing you can do to stop it. There was nothing my parents could do to stop it. So don’t challenge them on doing it, just ask Why? If the answer is To be famous, then they could be wasting their youth, their beauty…and chasing a big, empty ghost for a long time.

Editor’s Note: J.M. Stewart lives and works in the Los Angeles area. She interviewed Joe and Gia Mantegna for EDGE last fall.